Might be T4 Front Flywheel Oil Main Seal leak breakthough

[SGKent]

We put this seal in dry because using silicone caused it to creep loose. The engine was dry for about 2500 miles then a small very tiny drip started in the usual place. While the bus was jacked up butt high for the last 4 weeks the seepage got worse. So today to check the cause and verify that the endplay was holding solid I finally got around to smashing my finger and pulling the engine. I think it was in that order. No biggee on the finger, it will heal. Anyway below you will see a photo of the seal and where the leak appears to be coming from. Right along the lower case parting line where the seal sits down into it. I suspect that all the talk lately of high - low oil levels and leaks, all the years of discussion of main seals failing is related to this little seam and the seal not fully closing that area off. You can see the wet spot where the oil was oozing out ever so slowly.

I think the solution will be to use some permatex or something like it right in the seam areas and that should do it. The rest of the outside of the seal is dry and there was no oil on the flat face so it was not the ring that seals around the flywheel that failed.

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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[larrydeville]

You,Bus Daddy and Wild Thing have helped me so many times. I seem to have more and more extra parts because I cant wait to build another engine so when I saw this post it went under my hat. Thx....Larry

[Wildthings]

[SGKent]

[skills@eurocarsplus]

makes sense for sure...but i would have thought that the seal itself would have 'oozed' into the parting line, thus sealing it. unless of course there was a huge crater. is the T4 different in this area vs a T1?
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[SGKent]

there is no crater. I suspect that capillary action pulled the oil through slowly. The face of the seal was dry and the seam still has Curil in it except where the seal went.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Bleyseng]

ok, sounds like this might be a good solution.

Btw where is the pic of the finger...
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70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles

[old DKP driver]

Steve,
Coincidence? After a great Mothers Day barbecue. my Daughter in-law
asked about an oil leak on her Vanagon. She had a clutch job and seals done on the heads 2k.miles ago.Now it has a leak again.
and She went on google and found this article.

http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=535
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V.W.owner since 1967

[SGKent]

[Wildthings]

The normal sitting oil level for a Type 4 engine is well below the level of the bottom of the pulley seal, the oil level on a sitting engine is going to be below the bottom of the camshaft so it will be well below the level of the crank. Even if the seal was holed right on the bottom at the seam, it is hard to see how it could leak much after shutdown. There should only have a teaspoon or two in the recess behind the seal and it should not be replenished after shutdown.

Not sure of the source of your leak, but it just doesn't sound to me like it can be the pulley seal. Hope something works for you soon though.

[old DKP driver]

Yes, it was interesting reading and I hope the $29.95 is different from
the others.

I also hope Angelina does not see this post as I really didn't think you meant
what his name????

I too use the Green oil
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V.W.owner since 1967

[raygreenwood]

This is some nice detective work. One thing I have noticed over the years happening with seal materials as they are constantly getting upgraded to deal tith both modern lubricants and with modern raw materials.....is that the durometer or hardness of the synthetic rubber compounds is all over the place....and frequently is harder than normal.

What this means is that rubber compounds which are harder cannot conform to surface imperfections as well. In the case of shaft seals...it also means that the lips of the seal are stiffer and do not conform to the shaft as well. This is something I have observed...and that Colin commented on in a thread afew days back with reference to the main....where it is getting noticably harder at times for the hose sprig int the main seal to maintain tight contact with the flywheel sealing surface.

I noticed a lot of this a few years back when I was diagnosing the 10.5mm versus 12mm seal depth issue on my 412.

I also noticed this on front wheel bearing seals. Some have gotten so hard that they need to be pounded into the rotor and then the lips seal for crap.

Also transmission gasketing for my 412 is frequently too hard to seal to very minor case imperfection...so they weep and seep.

This is why I started the practice of roller applying extremely thin layers of RTV ...usually only a few microns deep up to about .0002" in thickness (that's about 5.8 microns). Then let it dry...then drive in the seal. It gives it just enogh surfacee squish to sill imperfections...but because its not going in with wet RTV on the seal...it does not act like a lubricant and let the seal slip out. I did awrite up with links to pictures about sptember of 2011. Ray

[SGKent]

there was no puddle this morning so I will check tonight when we get home. The only thing that has changed is the Curil K-2 around the new seal. Because the face was dry and the back of the flywheel dusty with no signs of oil, I know it wasn't slinging off the seal lip. I'll post again this afternoon if there are any signs of a leak.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Amskeptic]

[SGKent]

looks good Colin.

I used Curil K2 and it did not try to creep back out. Nary a leak as of tonight. We are headed to Yosemite in early June so I pray it will hold. BusDaddy said in another thread on main seals that he uses Curil K2 so I hope for the best.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Amskeptic]

[SGKent]

[Wildthings]

[SGKent]

well................. I lied.

Sunday thru Wednesday it sat, rear end of the bus in the air with the new seal. Not a drop of oil from it. Completely dry. Then this morning we are back to a quarter sized drop on the floor somewhere between 9pm and 6am. Gonna scream.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[curtis4085]