Might be T4 Front Flywheel Oil Main Seal leak breakthough

[busdaddy]

[williamM]

I made the mistake of using a garden hose on a frozen windshield one- didn't break it but it had 2 " ice on it before it started to melt.

Back to the thread, I run the orange seal with the spring packed with grease and drive it in 1/2 way and dribble locktite red round the other half and seat the seal a fingernail deep in the bore. so far so good.
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some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!

[Vanapplebomb]

My Sabo seal came in the mail today. Good quality stuff. The spring is just as heavy as the old school Goetze seal I pulled out when I tore town the engine. Definetly thicker than the springs on the elring seals I have seen. Also an honest 12mm thick for those with the deeper cut cases.

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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[satterley_sr]

Old topic but it was news to me. Had a leak on the test stand on a Type IV re-build with a new Victor Reinz main seal. Replaced the seal with another Victor reinz seal. No leak on my test stand. Good, deliver it to the customer all seems well. After about 50 miles of running bus is leaving one drop after being driven. Engine had to be pulled and I replaced the seal with a SABO. So far so good. I see that very slight scratch on the OD of the VR seal. Really ticked me off to go through all this work and risk pissing off a customer.
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DDC racing

[jtauxe]

OK, I've got seal leaking issues. This is on the 1975 single cab, which has an 1800-cc Type 2 engine in it. A couple of years back, I had new P&Cs and heads put on it (from Adrian), and the work was done by an old school air-cooled mechanic in Santa Fe. Upon reassembly, he noticed the leak, and pulled out the engine again to replace the main seal. The leak persisted, and he blamed the flywheel for being grooved.

That stayed that way until last summer, when I finally got a chance to pull out the engine and do a bunch of service, including the front main seal. In anticipation, I had got a new 215-mm flywheel (AVP, according to aircooled.net) and matching pressure plate and clutch. This'll fix it!

Upon removing the old flywheel, I could detect no hint of any groove. So much for that theory. I used the new one anyway, since the old one did have some worn teeth. Although SGKent had advised that I get the new flywheel and PP balanced, I could not find anyone in the state to do so, so I just went with what I got. I asked aircooled.net to ask the manufacturer (AVP) what tolerances they generally build to, but never did get an answer.

I also went with the Sabo seal, through GoWesty. I mangled the first one trying to get it in, and wished I had a tool like this:

[Amskeptic]

[jtauxe]

OK. Well, I know I had the nice graphite O-ring in there.

I am concerned about methods of emplacement for the seal. Is it OK to just press it in there with a block of wood and a mallet, or does it need more finesse, like with the tool that Steve posted? I'm guessing not everyone has a tool like that, so how do people go about getting the seal in nice and even?
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John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD

[riverside66]

I will be doing this soon, and using the Sabo seal. Like jtauxe asked, I too would like to know, how are you guys seating that seal? The tool Steve used is pretty difficult to find and/or priced out of my range for a (hopefully) one, two use tool.
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1977 Standard Beetle -Sold-
1979 Transporter - "Wheatbread" -Sold-

[jtauxe]

I just did this job AGAIN. I ended up using a small piece of 3/4"-thick plywood, and tapped it in with a mallet, trying my best to keep it in line. I think it went in fine. This is the fourth seal in a row for this truck. Test drive... and it is still hemorrhaging oil.

I am now thinking that it is not the seal at all... maybe one of the pressed-in gallery plugs? But I changed three of those out for threaded inserts. And I saw no evidence of leaking on those when the engine was out, either.

Today it was suggested to me that I may have too much crankcase pressure. I suppose that is possible. This is an 1800-cc Type IV engine with dual Weber carbs, FWIW.

How do I determine if there is too much pressure, and how do i go about fixing that? Time for a new thread?
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John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD

[vic74westy]

Is there a groove in the flywheel where the seal rides? After umpteen thousand miles that soft rubber seal can cut a groove. It's not as bad as it sounds though, they make repair sleeves to cover the damaged area. https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volkswagen,197...eeve,10524 I have used speedi sleeves on non vw vehicles with good results. I'm sure you've checked the flywheel sealing surface by this point in the game but that's my first thought.

Excessive pressure seems like a possibility too. Pull the hose from your breather, rev it up, and see how much blow by you get. How much is too much? Kinda hard to say, but you usually know it when you see it Sounds like a fairly fresh rebuild if you have tapped galley plugs so excessive pressure would be less likely than a worn/tired engine. I know worn valve guides and weak rings could cause excessive blow by. Maybe a leakdown test might shed some light? Maybe a restriction in the breather system? Wish I had a little more to offer ya. Good luck!

[jtauxe]

[vic74westy]

Sounds like you've pretty much ruled out the main seal as the culprit. I should have read further back before my last post. A leak down test could show a problem with ring/cylinder sealing but I don't think I would do one unless I saw signs of excessive blow by. If your carbs or breather filter are an oily mess it might be a good idea.
I've heard of diesel mechanics using cubic feet/hour meters or manometers to measure blow by. Sounds like you have more than one bus, so comparing the 2 even visually without any kind of meter should give you a pretty good idea.
What a tough spot to diagnose an oil leak! Really hard to find a leak when you can't clean the area spotless and watch the problem area while the engine runs for the first sign of oil. Next time you have it apart I wonder if it's possible to run compressed air to oil galleys to test the plugs. I'm thinking draining the oil, removing the oil pump, pressurizing the output port and watching for leaks at the plugs (covered in soapy water). Maybe someone with better knowledge of the oiling system will know if this is as crazy as it sounds or actually possible

[ivwshane]

Is this thread still correct with the findings people posted? I'll be pulling my engine for the first time and I would like to do this job right the first time.

Is this the Sabo seal I need? (this is the only one I see on their site).
http://www.gowesty.com/product/mechanical/3944/flywheel-flexplate-seal-rear-main-?v=

What else do I need for this job? Rtv? Oil?

Someone mentioned removing the existing seal by screwing screws into it to pull it out, is that a good idea?
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77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab

[Wildthings]

[ivwshane]

[SGKent]

ivwshane - Are you able to pull the motor by yourself? That is 90% of the job.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[lil-jinx]

Using screws to remove a seal is common practice,you must be 'very' careful when doing it so you don't damage the shaft,if the shaft get marked it will leak forever more.The front seal is simple to remove after the flywheel is removed.

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[ivwshane]

[thewalrus]

How are the GoWesty seals holding up? I need to do this in the spring and want to use the correct seal. I used the orange Reinz seal last fall and it failed right away
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'73 Transporter 1.7L Dual Carb

[SGKent]