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Disc Brake Conversions
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: Disc Brake Conversions Reply with quote

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[url=http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=556325&highlight=]Disc Brake Conversions[/url]


THANKS TO ALL CONTRIBUTORS


------------------DISC BRAKE CONVERSIONS -------------------

OEM PARTS DESCRIPTION FRONT

1964-79 Inner wheel bearings the same.
1964-841/2 outer wheel bearings the same.
1968-79 Ball Joints the same.
1968-70 Spindle and hub 5X205/ wide five lug bolt pattern. Drum Brakes.
1971-79 Hub 5x112/ narrow five lug nut pattern.
1971 Small calipers & rotors 12mm mounting bolts. Two versions, one bleeder valve early and two bleeder valves late.
1972 Small calipers & rotors 12mm mounting bolts.
1973-79 Spindles the same. Large calipers & rotors 14mm mounting bolts.
1971-E74 Small Servo/ Booster 8” diameter.
1974L-79 Large Servo/ Booster 10” diameter.
1980-85 Vanagon calipers will fit the 73-79 Bay. But they are a one bleeder design so there is a Left and Right. When installed the bleeder must be on the top.

1968-1970 Front Disc Brake OEM Conversion Parts

Basically, everything from the spindle out to the tires, rims and hub caps.
Spindle: 71-72 same. 73-79 same
Splash Shields & Bolts: Helps keep the mud off them rotors and keep them cool.
Calipers & Mounting Bolts: Small calipers 12mm bolts/ Large calipers 14mm bolts.
Brake Hoses: If you gotta ask how old they are. Replace them.
Brake Pads: If you are going to reuse them. Keep track of where they go and which rotor they were on.
Rotors: Run um, cut um or replace um. 71-72 same/ 73-79 same.
Hubs: Inspect bearing races and 14:1.5mm studs.
Wheel Bearings: Inspect for wear. 1964-79 used the same inner and outer bearings.
Seals: Replace 68-79 same.
Axle Thrust Washers and Nuts: Inspect
Grease Caps: Take all the BFH dents out of them.
5x112 Rims. The 5x205x14” – wide five rims will not clear the calipers even with adapters.
Hub Caps: The 68-70 hub caps will not fit on the 5x112 narrow five rims.
Lug nuts. 14x1.5mm Inspect.

1971 Front Disc Brake OEM Conversion Parts

Spindle: 73-79 same
Calipers & Mounting Bolts: 73-79 Large calipers 14mm mounting bolts.
Brake Pads: 73-79 Same size pad as 71-72 but Thicker = last longer.
Rotors: 73-79 More of a top hat.
---------------------OR
Bushings: Reduces the 14mm mounting hole in the later caliper to 12mm and spaces the caliper to your original rotors.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Requires longer Mounting Bolts: M12 x 40mm bolts
Calipers: 73-79 Large calipers.
Brake Pads: 73-79 Thicker.

VdubEngineering: Bay caliper adapter, early-late



1968-70 Brake Servo – Booster OEM Conversion

Brake Servo Mounting Plate: You will need to cut one off a 73-79 beam or fabricate one.
Master Cylinder: Servo Master Cylinder with 2 new sealing plugs and O-ring.
Master Cylinder Reservoir: If not converting to Beetle.
Clear original fill line: Be careful these crack if mishandled.
Specialty end seals for Clear line: For a leak free seal.
Fill Reservoir: Mounted behind driver’s seat.
Brake lines: Fronts and Back would be nice.
“T” fitting Beetle: To combine the two front brake lines into one for the servo master cylinder.
Vacuum line& hose: 12mm Vacuum Hose
Brake Pedal & Rod: Pedal suggested (don’t know why). Servo brake rod is longer.
Pressure Regulator: To maintain brake bias. Adjustable ones are available, if you are mismatched.
Backfire check valve: Says it all. Directional, the end you can blow threw faces the Servo.
Brake Cables and Cross Bar: Cables need swaged cross bar locators or the brake cable will rub on Servo.
Electrical Wire & connectors: You need to extend the brake light switch wiring.


----OEM PARTS DISCRIPTION REAR

1968-70 Long Stub Axle 9.125”end to end. One piece hub and drum 5x205/ wide 5, 14x1.5mm lug bolts.
1971-91 Short Stub Axle 8.25”end to end. Hub and drum two piece 5x112/narrow 5, 14x1.5mm lug nuts.
1968-91 Inner Axle Bearing the same. The one closest to the C.V. joint.
1968-70 Outer Axle Bearing the same. The one closest to the brake drum.
1971-91 Outer Axle Bearing the same. The one closest to the brake drum.
1968-91 Inner & Outer Seals the same.
1971-79 Rear hubs the same.
1968-91 Axle Nut the same.
1968-70 Brake Drums the same 5x205/ wide 5 pattern.
1971-79 Brake Drums the same 5x112/ narrow 5 pattern.
1971 One year only brake shoes 8/70 to 7/71Question: Is backing plate one year only?
1972 One year only brake shoes 8/71 to 12/73. Size 252mm x 56mm. Question: Is backing plate one year only?
1973-79 Multiple year brake shoes 1/73 to 79. Backing plates the same.


------1968-1970 Rear Drum Brake OEM Conversion Parts

There has been conflicting post on this subject. Two have posted that they only changed the backing plate assembly, hub and the drums. They did not change the bearing housings and the stub axles. They reported that the axle nut did not run out of threads and it tightened up.
Others have posted that this will not work, that the stub axle is to long for the 71-79 brake assemblies.
Question: If you have done this what worked for you?

Basically the Bearing Housing and everything attached to it.
Bearing Housing: Question: What were the changes?
Backing Plate: Full Assembly shoes, cylinders, springs and hardware.
Axle Shaft- Stub Shaft: 71-79 short.
Inner Bearings: 68-91 the same.
Outer Bearings: 71-91 the same.
Seals: 68-91 the same.
Wheel Hub: 71-79 the same. 5/112 Narrow 5.
Brake Drum: 71-79 the same
Lug Nuts: 71-79 the same 14x1.5mm lug nuts
5x112 Narrow 5 Rims, tires and Hub caps:

-----1971-1972 Rear Drum Brake OEM Conversion Parts

Backing Plate: 73-79 Full assembly, shoes, cylinders, springs and hardware.


----- Comments From Threads

If you have a single carburetor dual port engine, you can use the 1971 bus or an Auto-Stick intake manifold. Both have the vacuum port.

The vacuum ports on the carburetor are not big enough for the servo/ booster. It has been tried.

An alternative to ported vacuum is an electric vacuum pump.

To convert to a dual system Beetle Fill Reservoir
1. 2 Lengths of Blue Brake Hose: To run form Master to Fill Reservoir.
2. Beetle Fill Reservoir: Mounted behind drivers seat.
3. 2 Sealing Plugs: To convert to a Beetle dual system fill reservoir.
4. 2 Master Cylinder Barbed Hose Connectors: To convert to a Beetle dual system fill reservoir.

To reduce the cost of vacuum hose, you can run a length of pipe part way.
1. 8ft Length of ˝” pipe: Cut to size.
2. Rubber lined pipe clamps: To mount the vacuum pipe to the body.
3. ˝”- 12mm to Pipe fitting: If you do not have a vacuum fitting on your intake manifold. You will need to drill a hole, tap it and add a fitting.

Disc Brake Master Cylinder and Pressure Regulator need to be installed on disc brake conversions to maintain brake bias.

Not suggested, but you can do the install without the Servo/ Booster on the 1968-70. You need to remove the Residual Valve, check ball and spring. To do this, remove from the master cylinder the brass fitting that connects to the Front Brakes. Once this fitting is removed, you will see that the fitting includes a check valve which is made up of a spring loaded ball stopper. Carefully secure the fitting in a vice, grasp the check valve portion with channel-locks and carefully pop the check valve out and discard it. Then screw the fitting back into the master cylinder, connect your line. If this operation is not performed the brake pads will not return all the way and continue rubbing against the rotor causing premature brake pad wear, rotors to warp and grease seals to fail eventually.
67 Residual Valve but you will get the idea.
nelsnfam wrote:
I believe the residual pressure valves only retain 10 lbs pressure. Be that as it may, it's still like driving with your foot on the brake all the time. Here are some photos of the procedure.
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http://ratropa.com/mc.jpg
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http://ratropa.com/RPV1.jpg
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http://ratropa.com/RPV2.jpg
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http://ratropa.com/open.JPG
Hope this helps 67 only disc brake conversions.
Steve Nelson
http://ratropa.com


Quick question: will self-adjusting Vanagon rear brakes (backing plates, drums, everything) fit on a 76 bus? Answer: As far as I know it's a bolt-on swap as long as you use *everything*, shoes drums cylinders etc.

A Vanagon rear disc setup should be easy to adapt to the bay, you can even have vented rear Audi 200 turbo rotors & calipers.
Mercedes have huge brakes. They also have the 71 and newer bolt pattern.


Links Provided

How to: Install power brakes into 1968-1970 Bus (Pic heavy)
There are two sizes of Servo’s/ Boosters. 1971-early74 small 8” and 1974late-79 large 10”. It has been suggested that the best one for the 1968-70, is the 1973-e74 8” Servo. Because it was designed to work with the Upright Type 1 engine from the earlier years.
I do not know if the 3/16 Swagelok unions with B nuts are DOT approved. Your vehicle may not pass inspection in your state with these fittings. I have seen DOT approved fittings on a T.V., program but was unable to locate them at this time. Please understand the Swagelok fittings are a highly specialized fittings with pressure ratings well above the 3000psi DOT requires for brake service. DO NOT USE BRASS COMPRESSION FITTINGS


Stopping Distance Data
Amskeptic wrote:
Late bay factory brakes are world-class performers, designed to haul down the GVWR from the vehicle's top speed. With the proportioning valve engineered in to this specific application, there is no real improvement that you can hope to achieve. Braking safety begins and ends with the driver and the tires contact patches. Check your specifications against the factory specifications
60-0 123 feet 1973
60-0 167 feet 1979
70-0 191 feet 1986
All reports (Road&Track,Car&Driver, PV4) gave the brakes an "excellent" rating with superior control.
Colin




Aftermarket Conversions

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/default.asp

http://airkewld.com/

http://www.bustoration.com/

cbperformance

csp-shop

Creative-Engineering

Oldspeed Email: [email protected]

http://www.wagenswest.com/

wolfsburgwest

vintagev-dubs rear disc brake kit


---- Other Conversions

Area51 wrote:
Mercedes 190 it is.. It's in french, but pictures do tell the story Wink
http://vw-camper.aceboard.fr/115851-460-12586-0-freins-disque.htm
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[quote="Yann"]Here's a translation by a guy that speak both languages not a software :O)
The caliper is off a Golf 2 GTI, make sure to get the wire with it's sleeve (your gonna need those cause the wire from the bus will now be too short). The disc come from the back of a Mercedes 190 (Bendix reference #561333b from Mercedes W 201 190D 1983 to 1993, those disc were also oem on mercedes 200, 250, and 300 of the same period, diameter of 258mm, 44mm of offset). The support bracket is 10mm thick with + a 5mm ridge to center the caliper. On a lathe remove 15mm off the hub diameter, so you can put the disc on it, drill a hole in the disc so you can screw it to the hub. Finally, lengthen the hand brake cable according to your model.


Last edited by Tcash on Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:23 pm; edited 9 times in total
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Audi rear disc. Reply with quote

scirocco_crazy wrote:
This is how I did my $200 rear disc brake conversion on my bay window. Bought 1/4" cold rolled low carbon steel. Removed entire hub assembly. Cut a 84mm hole in 10x10 sheet of steel. Marked and drilled securing bolt holes. Machined down hub to recieve the Audi A8 rotors. installed and removed them about a dozen times while getting the placement correct for the calipers. Ground away the small lip on the inboard side of the caliper mount. I re-used just about all the original bolts. From here I need to get a stainless steel braided brake line and fabricate a pipe so that I can use the e-brake feature. At this point I have a total of $115 in it. I figure after new pads and misc parts I should finish at $200. Not bad for installing disc brakes. Very Happy
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[quote="scirocco_crazy"]i finished the passenger side tonight. The only thing left is to work on the e-brake later once both sides are set up. I am happy with the fit and look, I think they will work well.
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tristessa
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Disc Brake Conversions Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:
Area51 wrote:
Mercedes 190 it is.. It's in french, but pictures do tell the story Wink
http://vw-camper.aceboard.fr/115851-460-12586-0-freins-disque.htm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Link and pictures are broken. Try: http://www.vw-camper.fr/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1527
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to put the Ford pattern on the rear with some disks. I know the bolt pattern is very close but I don't want to grind out the wheels to fit. Anyone know if taking the splined part and getting Ford studs installed would be easy? How about the right size rotors to fit? How would you go about finding the right sizes for this? Thanks!
Jeff
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they're 5x4.5"/114.3mm, you might be able to get away with wobble nuts...
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But you can't get the wheels over the studs.
Jeff
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VW Type 2 Bus Front & Rear Disc Brake Conversion/Harold Williams

Creative-engineering/ disc brake kits

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Minor 944 kit allows you to put early 944 NA brakes onto your 64 to 70 type 2.
Price includes stretching YOUR 944 grease caps to fit over the spindle nuts. If your bus is 68-70 it requires different grease seals which are $$ a pair.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:38 am    Post subject: vintagev-dubs Front disc brake kits for 5x205 Reply with quote

vintagev-dubs
This disc kit is high quality and designed out of factory vw parts.. This kit allows you to run 5x205 with disc brakes and bolts on to all year buses.. They offer this kit with a 2 piston caliper or a 4 piston Wilwood caliper.. please when ordering specify what year your bus is..


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http://vintagev-dubs.com/shop/
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would also like to note

if doing a swap on a 70 (probably the same on 68-9 as well) you need to move the front brake line retainers brackets that are welded on the frame to a different position

the drum brake buses have it mounted more forward and on a bit of an angle where the disc buses have it mounted level just under the hard line hole in the frame.

now go find the pic's mr. cash Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of curiosity, do any of these retain a functioning parking brake? It's required here in NH for inspection.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In regards to Vintage V-Dubs kit, they do offer a vented undrilled/slotted rotor option as well. I've been considering the Vintage V-Dub kit or the Babystang kit, comparatively, here's what I've noticed;

Babystang: Machined aluminum dust caps - 5mm offset - Import FAG bearings(stock sized) - Offered in drilled or solid - HD billet caliper bracket - Lazer cut wide 5 adapters - Wagonswest, innovators.

Vintage V-Dub: Stamped zinc plated dust caps - Unknown offset if used on wide 5 pattern - USA made bearings(stock sized) - Only offered in non-drilled - Plate steel caliper bracket - Vintage V-Dubs, copiers.

My vote is going to Wagonswest but has anyone heard if [email protected] is making his bay window brake kits again?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:04 pm    Post subject: Wagenswest Bustang Reply with quote

1963-70 VW Bus 5 on 205mm disk brake kit "Bustang"

Anchovy wrote:
Spent a little time working on the bus this weekend. I installed the BabyStang disc brake conversion kit offered by Nate at WagensWest. I also installed new front hoses and a new master cylinder while I was at it.

The kit is nice and went on pretty easy. The only hassle was the old rusted flare nuts on the brake lines which required some vise grip action to get them loose. I like the look of the machined grease caps but they were a bit of a pain to get in place. The hubs need a little more chamfer to accept the caps.

The kit relocates the brake line from about the 11 o'clock position to about the 2 o'clock position which make the ball joint hose clip obsolete. I will wait to see how the hose looks when I get the bus on the ground.

I measured the offset before and after and it looks like the wheels will be about 1/4" wider on each side.

Next weekend I'll bleed the system and report on the braking performance. I am not expecting a big improvement but hope to make the system lower maintenance and more reliable.

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I finished up the brake job. I removed the check valve from the master cylinder on the front disc circuit per the advice in other threads and from WagensWest. The rear port/valve goes to the front brake circuit on the 1970 system.

I flushed and bled the brakes, adjusted rears and got the bus on the road. Leg pressure seems to be slightly less and the front brakes have better braking power. (Keep in mind that I replaced the leaky master cylinder and both front wheel cylinders on the original drum brakes were weeping so comparatively there was a big improvement in braking performance.) I am happy with the WagensWest kit, ease of installation and the improved braking performance.

The master cylinder rod and clevis had lots of surface rust so I blasted them and had them zinc plated for corrosion resistance. I made sure to adjust the rod length to the Bentley manual specification and it gave me the 1mm of play that was suggested. I blasted and plated the lug bolts at the same time.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: vintagev-dubs Front disc brake kits for 5x205 Reply with quote

Purchased a front set for my 67 Bus a few months ago. Finally at a point to install and last night I could only fit one of the double nuts onto the spindle. Am I missing something here?? Everything appears to be installed correctly. Anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks in advance



Tcash wrote:
vintagev-dubs
This disc kit is high quality and designed out of factory vw parts.. This kit allows you to run 5x205 with disc brakes and bolts on to all year buses.. They offer this kit with a 2 piston caliper or a 4 piston Wilwood caliper.. please when ordering specify what year your bus is..


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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http://vintagev-dubs.com/shop/
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a picture of the problem?

I ordered those like a month ago, still haven't arrived yet.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pictures would be cool.
How to post photos/How to post a photo in the Forums
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looking for info on 944 hubs. I have a set of hubs and a 74 bay. What do i need to make these fit properly?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rustednuggs wrote:
Hello - I have a 69 SC and want front disc brakes. A few questions about those:

Any recommendations on where to buy and who has the affordable complete kit?

I have a ball joint front it. I will need a new master cyclinder that will come with the kit.

Any info will be great.

Thanks
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course those are expensive too!

TY!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read the conversion section and use 73-79, from the front spindles out and add a booster.
Good Luck
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, is that a cheaper way to go or something? Can I piece together a set for cheaper? I will read the section you mentioned which must be at the top of that thread.

Thanks T

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