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Clutch issue?
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Merrix
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Clutch issue? Reply with quote

A couple weeks as I'm driving to work, I stop at a light and have a hard time shifting into 1st. After a few grinds and I get it into gear. Shifting through other gears was fine. I get to work and cannot get the car to go into 1st or reverse to park. I figured my cable was just lose so I'll just tighten before I head home. So I do that and it helped a bit. Over the next couple days it seems to worsen. I tighten the cable some more and no such luck. I realized my pedal assembly had a bit of play in it so tighten that up.

Well today I fire her up to tune and drive around to get my POS off the road. When I put the pedal to the floor the engine wanted to die and the pedal felt really odd, kinda mushy and pulsating. So I loosen the cable a bit and just go back and forth in the driveway to feel the clutch. 1st and reverse felt fine. Shifting through gears while driving was no issue but I did hear a really odd sound. Sounded like metal being tossed around in a dryer (laundry). I couldn't pin point the time I would get the sound but I think it was when I was coasting in gear. I park and loosen the cable more and take her out again. I get the same sound again. I park while the engine is still running and I reach back to feel the tension on the cable and it was fine. I push/pull on the arm the cable is attached to feel for play and I got a weird pulsating feel.

It got late so I figured I would research and post my issue on here to see if anyone has had something similar to this happen. I am fairly mechanical when it comes to engines but not so much on transmissions. Could this a clutch issue? Bad bearings? Bad cable adjustment?

I have a 63 Baja with a 1776 so pulling the engine would take no more than 30 mins but I don't have everything I need to pull the motor out right now. I plan on pulling it out late next week.

Thank you for everything!
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Popeye67
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im looking forward to the replies, my '67 is doing the exact same thing. Sounds like shrapnel in a dryer and my clutch wont release at all - the pitch of the noise changes when clutch pedal is depressed. Sounds like a quieter version of a broken crankshaft, but there is no play at the crank pulley and the engine runs like a sewing machine. Im either pulling the engine tomorrow or next weekend, Ill post pics and results if you dont pull yours first.
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airschooled Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but clutch cable adjustments will never cure a problem Sad

I bet if you were to pull the engine right now, you would see bits of release bearing al over the bell-housing. Kinda like this:

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Metal being tossed around in a dryer? Excellent description of what happens when your clutch cable is so tight that the release bearing and/or pressure plate spins itself to death and grenades around in the bell-housing Embarassed

The bearing is only called in for duty when the clutch pedal is pressed. BUT if the cable is too tight, then even though the clutch disc isn't slipping, the bearing is engaged and spinning constantly. When you get your engine out, you'll see how flimsily the bearing is mounted, and why constant engagement might not work.

Now, you both will likely have different pressure plates, as they changed some time around '68 and again in '71, but the release bearing looks similar in all years. Different clip-in points, but similar center section. Compare your parts to photos of new/good ones, and figure out what exactly is causing it.

Let us know what you find! (PS- you baja guys have it so easy! Smile )
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Merrix
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the reply. Well thankfully it's just a bearing and not a clutch. Bearing I can easily afford right now but definitely not a clutch kit. So the main cause of this bearing going bad it having the cable to tight? Makes sense but I hate how something so simple can cause such an issue. I am pretty stoked about the how quick it is to remove my engine. Gotta love Baja's Very Happy I will post pics of my findings in the next couple days when I have all the tools and time to remove the engine.

Thank you
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airschooled Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it could be the pressure plate, but that's why you're removing the engine!

There are also two clips that hold the bearing in. Basic U shaped clips and spring-type clips that look like a U clip with an extra coil at the apex. I can't post pictures from my phone, but I'll get some tomorrow.
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Merrix
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I'm hoping it's the bearing Pray

Thank you for the pics. Any and all would help me out. I have never dealt with any transmission stuff other than bolting an engine to it.
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airschooled Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if you've removed your engine, then you've likely seen the pressure plate. There are three basic kinds, early, middle, and late. (There are subdivisions of each type, but I'll let you research that Smile)

Early pressure plates are usually operated by three sprung arms with a retaining ring in between them. See the top two plates below.

Late plates look like a bunch of fingers reaching towards a gap in the middle. See the bottom three plates below.

Middle era plates are like a hybrid of the two- they have the spring fingers and a retaining ring.


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When a mid-year plate fails, they often do so like this:
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The cause of mid-year PP failures is often attributed to these clips not holding the TO bearing straight. Anything off balance in a rotating system wears supporting parts far more than they are often designed for.

Original, sketchy clips:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Newer, more trustworthy clips:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Late model PPs avoid the clip issue by mounting a sleeve on the bell housing to guide the TO bearing, so the bearing won't hit the PP out of balance.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I include all this information, because after 40+ years these cars tend to have a myriad of parts thrown in. Each PP requires a certain TOB. PP and flywheel size have to match- your old PP should say on it.

Some mechanics say the "throwout bearing" is a double entendre, meaning it is responsible for the operation of the PP/clutch mechanism, but every time you see it you should throw it out. I did when my PP went last year- but it's not as easy to pull the engine on a bus in the freezing rain Wink
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Merrix
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I think I found my culprit.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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The pressure plate took a beating but everything looks in tack.
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DHMaher
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yikes! Glad it didn't do any major damage but I can see where the junk in the washing machine sound came from! Mine just recently popped off as well (intact) because of those crappy clips. Completely stripped the gland nut.

Might be a good time to upgrade that operating shaft and replace the tranny mounts while you're in there. Warning, the clutch arm is a real pain to get off. I had to cut the operating shaft off to get it out!
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