Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Mystery engine potential rebuild project
Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
freizusein
Samba Member


Joined: June 25, 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Show Low
freizusein is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Mystery engine potential rebuild project Reply with quote

I got a nice case that I was told was a 1500 cc. Numbers on the case5123320
From what I am reading it looks to be a sixties 1200cc case the pistons read 82.96 mm I measured the crank opening with a tape measure don't laugh I am gathering tools much to my wife's pain. It measures 2 and 3/4 I realize that is not an accurate measurement. Was I duped into thinking this was a 1500 which I really would love to rebuild and put in my 68 or is it a big bore 1200? I am not looking to go crazy this is my first rebuild and I have a mechanic friend giving me pointers along the way it just will be a couple of weeks before he gets back. Thanks for the help and yes I am very much a novice. Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Luft kühl
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 1168
Location: Allentown, PA
Luft kühl is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This picture might help you to determine what you have.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Joel
Samba Member


Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
Joel is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pointless going on engine numbers anymore, that only tells what the engine started life as.

Yours has 83mm pistons which are 1500.
1200s have 77mm pistons, so they guy wasn;t lying when he said its a 1500, the case just started life as a 1200.

As for the stroke being 2.75" which is close enough to 69mm.
1200s had a 64mm stroke.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wolfgangdieter
Samba Member


Joined: June 25, 2008
Posts: 1893
Location: FL Panhandle
Wolfgangdieter is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A dual relief, dual port engine w/ doghouse cooler would be far better starting point for any performance engine. I would use the old 1200/1500 for transportation pretty much as is - maybe valve job, rings and reseal.
_________________
CMC '57 Porsche Speedster Replica and Dolphin boat tailed full pan VW MOD-T Street Buggy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Danwvw
Samba Member


Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8644
Location: Oregon Coast
Danwvw is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something doesn't add up, The case number your giving says it's a 1960 beetle engine, I seem to remember my 1960 was a 36 horse. But the bore your giving 83 mm is what the 1500's did have.
_________________
1971 Sundial Camper, Building a 74 mm Stroke by 88 mm bore with stock heads? And 1960 Beetle And 1679cc W-100 & Zeniths!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Twitter Gallery Classifieds Feedback
freizusein
Samba Member


Joined: June 25, 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Show Low
freizusein is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Awesome that helps a lot it definitely seems to be a 1500.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Joel
Samba Member


Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
Joel is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
Something doesn't add up, The case number your giving says it's a 1960 beetle engine, I seem to remember my 1960 was a 36 horse.


only early 60 was 36hp, 40hp started mid year and that number puts it around september so yes it started out as a 40hp 1200 bus or bug motor but is now been rebuilt as a 1500.

Not a good case to do any mods to but fine for a stocker.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Danwvw
Samba Member


Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8644
Location: Oregon Coast
Danwvw is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you put a 69 mm crank into a 40 horse? Aren't the cylinder stud patterns and case openings the wrong size too for a late head?
_________________
1971 Sundial Camper, Building a 74 mm Stroke by 88 mm bore with stock heads? And 1960 Beetle And 1679cc W-100 & Zeniths!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Twitter Gallery Classifieds Feedback
drs1023
Samba Member


Joined: October 20, 2011
Posts: 1678
Location: Georgia, USA
drs1023 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Piston size for a big bore 1200 is 83 mm (stock 77). The 1500 pistons are 83.5, larger diameter wrist pin, higher wrist pin offset (due to 5 mm increase in stroke), and won't fit a 1200 rod. The pictures above are an excellent reference point from the outside. From the inside, the first thing you will notice is that the rods are installed with bolts only on a 1200 and nuts/bolts on a 1500.

Wish my old 1200 hadn't worn out the journals past line boring. I really liked the 1385 cc big bore 1200's. Very peppy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 25766
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, stock 1493cc pistons are NOT 83.5mm, they are 83mm just the same as big bore 40HP.

You can tell the cylinders apart though, by the cylinder wall thickness.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Joel
Samba Member


Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
Joel is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
How do you put a 69 mm crank into a 40 horse? Aren't the cylinder stud patterns and case openings the wrong size too for a late head?


Nope, you can drop a 69mm crank and rods in but you would need to open
the case up for the bigger barrels with the early 40hp 1200s.


I have a 40hp 1200 turned into a 1600 dual port.
Its a 70s Euro one so it already had the dual relief and and bigger bore though so only needed the crank and rods needed swapping and longer head studs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
drs1023
Samba Member


Joined: October 20, 2011
Posts: 1678
Location: Georgia, USA
drs1023 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duly noted, glutamodo. I am confusing 85.5 & 83(.5). I've heard that the memory is the first thing to go, and I forget what the second thing is! Example-I am currently reassembling a 1641 & have caught myself the last couple of nights overthinking every move. Like torquing the first 8mm nut then looking to see that I had left out the cam stopper. Thanks for the lesson.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 25766
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, those pictures I posted were as much for the original poster as they were for you - showing that you can look at the cylinder wall thickness to see if they are 1500 or big-bore 40HP.

Yeah, I know what you mean by memory... Wink

I will note, mostly trivia here, that on remanufactured engines, VW did bore out cylinders to 83.5 and 84mm. The only parts for those I've ever seen in VWs parts books are new piston rings though - so I don't think those pistons/cylinders were ever sold through the parts department. Actually, I think if you bought a reman'd 1500 from VW in the late 60s and early 70s, I doubt VW even told you if it was a 1511 (83.5mm) or 1530 (84mm)

-Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
freizusein
Samba Member


Joined: June 25, 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Show Low
freizusein is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do any of you know a good source for 1500 cc pistons and jugs? Very Happy Question
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
DuaneL
Samba Member


Joined: February 02, 2012
Posts: 511
Location: Spokane WA
DuaneL is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freizusein wrote:
Do any of you know a good source for 1500 cc pistons and jugs? Very Happy Question


If you are talking about big bore pistons for a 40 hp case then AApistons sells the 83s if you are talking 1500 pistons for a 1300-1600 case then
you might as well just use 1600 piston and jugs since they are a direct fit and no one can tell from the outside it is not a 1500 (or in my case my 66 looks like the original 1300 unless you check the part number on the heads then you can tell it is a 1500 or 1600)
_________________
____________
1971 std bug, 1776, ACN Super Stock 34-3, dvda dist, 27x8.50 14 tires
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 25766
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason I was able to take photos comparing big bore 40HP 83mm to stock 1600 83mm parts is that I kept an eye on eBay and theSamba classifieds. I bought a 1500 set of pistons/cylinders on purpose a few years ago, but I only found them via searching 83mm sets.

85.5mm (1600) piston/cylinder sets became the de-facto replacement parts for all 1500 engines back in the early 1970s. Still there are some sets of 83mm 1500 piston/cylinders out there, if you look and have patience.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?...ton=Search

-Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB