The Pros and Cons of Hightopping from a longtime Poptopper

[Bruce Wayne]

this is my bastardized sunroof van. the P.O. put the poptop on.when camping I wish it was a hightop. I opted for the GW rainfly instead of new canvas. the P.O. made the canvas out of a light fabric. just don't have the time or money to do the hightop conversion at this time.

before the new tires/wheels. big bulge in the side is the crossbar.

[Wolpi]

Best upgrade, by far. Totally agree with OP.
Pros: Better stowage, better sleeping arrangements, better stealth camp opportunities, better insulation/temp control in both hot and cold weather, better ventilation- stationary and underway. Oddly enough, I now get 1 MPG better than I had with the poptop.
Cons: Yup, banned from my garage for life. No more park garages either. Or drive through windows. Mechanic can't raise it up as high on his lift; has to work under it from a rolling chair. Slightly more ambient interior noise when underway. Slight increase in sidewind sensitivity... Small prices to pay for such improvements in liveability, IMHO.
Joel
_________________
'81 Westy Vanagorsche "The Wolpertinger"

[wildenbeast]

I guess that person would be me. I switched from a van with an Adventurewagen top to one with a Pop-top, and like the Pop-top much more. The AW top was nice for storing gear but not for sleeping. These newer hi tops seem much taller than the AW top I had so maybe they are more comfortable than the top I had. I can't say enough about sleeping in the Pop-top. Having space to sit up and look over mountain vistas as a breeze comes through the canvas each morning is pretty amazing. I never got to experience that with the AW top which is why I prefer the Pop-top.

Bill

[MsTaboo]

Having owned both now for about five months I would say HiTop all the way for comfort, storage, and convenience.
Much warmer (in fact a bit too warm in hot weather, but then ours has the double pane insulated windows and no AC, other models may be better)

The only downsides are the height. The garage bit, and more windage from the sides and back. Better going straight into the wind.
And you lose the rooftop racks. (yes I know there are some available for HiTops, but IMHO they too clunky)

We plan to get a small trailer to pull behind ours. That way we get the ability to carry our kayaks/bikes and all that extra junk we take on long road trips, and it will mark our camping spot.

_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec

The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine.

[itsasyncro]

Gotta love MsTaboo's driveway jewelry.
Jeff

[MsTaboo]

[J Charlton]

For the record, I don't consider it a "vs" scenario between the two types of top. I consider it to be more of an evolutionary process. This is discussed at http://canadianhightops.ca/whyahightop.html . I loved my early and late bays with pop tops - took one over 12000 miles around N. America one summer, lots of long and short trips.
Now my vw van is a T3 '85 former westfalia powered by a 2.5 subaru, with a hightop and a fridge that actually works and numerous other mods. I've changed, my expectations have changed and my vw van has changed along with them.
_________________
NAHT hightop availability May 18 2023 -
Bend Oregon - for Oregon, California- (7 tot , 3 available), Kennewick Wa (6 tot, 1 available), Small Car Performance Fife Wa. (7 tot 4 avail ), Fairbanks Alaska (1 tot 0 avail)
Future availability TBD : Springfield Mass. Staunton Va, Florida, Colorado, Grand Junction Co., SLC probably late 2024

[Xtremjeepn]

I've thought about this a lot. What I see with the hightop is moving more towards an RV and away from the family van/weekend explorer.

ANY RV is easier to live in when you add more space. It's exactly this type of evolution that has led people to giant 50' campers with 4 slide outs.

I can't tell you the number of people that I've met in larger campers that say "we used to have a Westfalia" (someone else had to have owned this things in the past afterall)

The beauty in a pop top van is that the 95% of the time you are not using it to sleep in it provides all the simplicity of a regular van.

I personally love exploring distant, but not necessarily "out of the way" places. This often means going out to nice meals in big city's, etc. Places where a hightop would be much harder to park and much more obvious as a "camper".

It would also stand out as a "camper" in my HOA controlled neighborhood and I wouldn't be allowed to park it outside. Where a poptop is viewed as a van. Most seem to forget it has a camping feature.

Just food for the conversation.

[MsTaboo]

[Xtremjeepn]

[?Waldo?]

If I'm in my high top parked in a city, I sleep upstairs with the downstairs curtains open. I'm not totally sure friends in uniform haven't knocked, but I must have slept through it.

[Xtremjeepn]

[?Waldo?]

You are confused. I currently own both. Have you?

[Xtremjeepn]

[?Waldo?]

What does owning both have to do with it? Experience.

When travelling in my pop top either raised or not I have been roused quite a few times. I have never had that experience in my high top. With a pop top van, if you have the curtains open, and an officer decides to hassle you, he will shine a flashlight through the window. Curtains closed almost guarantee that you will get rousing behavior. With a high top, curtains open and a nice black piece of ABS covering each of the top windows a policeman may shine a flashlight around the bottom level but in seeing an empty van, invariably goes away.

[J Charlton]

Its unfortunate that the vs in the original post set up a "one against the other " paradigm. It isn't so and I believe that this was not the intent of the OP.
I really believe that it is more of an evolutionary process than anything else. Here are a few facts about the installs that have happened:
1. Most - well over 80% - have gone onto vans that have had engine conversions or upgrades. Subarus, Tiico,diesels ... Speaking to those who have put hightops on, its pretty much the same response universally - they installed a more modern reliable power plant, with its dependability they began to take more extensive trips - more extensive trips = more stuff, more stuff and having to deal with stowing and unstowing it and /or having it underfoot in the main part of the van leads to a quest for more space - the quest for space leads to the hightop.
2. A disproportionate number of tops have gone onto syncros - ie, proportionally way more than the proportion of syncros relative to 2wd vans. Makes sense if one looks at the cost of syncro westy,,
3. In Europe, more vans "emerged" with hightops than poptops We just didn't get them in North America

Re "stealth camping" - it really isn't the issue of whether or not a van or a hightop would be more likely to be checked by Officer Friendly. The question is - or should be - which is more likely to look as if someone is sleeping in it: A. a westy with its top opened or B. a hightop.

At least 2 guys who have installed hightops are, in fact, living in them - both in major cities. They vary their parking locations, sleep, wake up, drive to their gym to workout and shower, drive to work etc etc. One saves enough in rent that he can work for 6 months and surf for 6 months. Both seem to have figured out how to co-exist with the local authorities, neither would think of doing it without a hightop.

Let's stop the competitive "versus" construct. Each configuration of T3 top, the westy poptop or a hightop has significant advantages over a tintop van for camping. Let's just focus on the advantages each has to offer.
_________________
NAHT hightop availability May 18 2023 -
Bend Oregon - for Oregon, California- (7 tot , 3 available), Kennewick Wa (6 tot, 1 available), Small Car Performance Fife Wa. (7 tot 4 avail ), Fairbanks Alaska (1 tot 0 avail)
Future availability TBD : Springfield Mass. Staunton Va, Florida, Colorado, Grand Junction Co., SLC probably late 2024

[VanaGlenn]

nice looking beasts!
i'd like a nice little trailer for toys too.
as for height when sleeping up top, the poppy is better if you want to lounge and or sit and enjoy the view.
but it's always a bit of compromise unless we can get one of them fancy Weinsberg euroVanagon popping hightops...

[VanaGlenn]

John is correct.
I should have started this thread with something like:

The Pros and Cons of Poptops and Hightops on Vanagon.

Cause I love 'em both.
Just prefer the hightop for the long hauls and that's what I put on the Vanagon where I'm spending some more serious coin upgrading and or replacing pretty much everything - from drive train to cooling to interior, etc.

Now, if I were working on commi$$ion selling hightops, well...

_________________
1980 Westfalia Vanagon 2L AC
1982 Hightop Vanagon 1.9 AAZ TD
1985 Sunroof Vanagon 1.9L AT
1987 Hardtop Vanagon 2.1L AT [donor]
1999 Audi A6 Quattro Avant
2001 Toyota Sienna XLE

Gone but not forgotten:
1972 Westie, 1980 Westie, 1948 Flexibus [Greyhound RV], 87 Toyota Van, 95 AWD SC Previa, 88 BMW 535is, 92 BMW 525i, 87 BMW 328ic and a few domestic vans and wagons not worth mentioning...

[?Waldo?]

I agree, both are excellent.

[VanaGlenn]

as always, ever helpful advise from the sage of the sagebrush.
thanks, Andrew.
:^)
_________________
1980 Westfalia Vanagon 2L AC
1982 Hightop Vanagon 1.9 AAZ TD
1985 Sunroof Vanagon 1.9L AT
1987 Hardtop Vanagon 2.1L AT [donor]
1999 Audi A6 Quattro Avant
2001 Toyota Sienna XLE

Gone but not forgotten:
1972 Westie, 1980 Westie, 1948 Flexibus [Greyhound RV], 87 Toyota Van, 95 AWD SC Previa, 88 BMW 535is, 92 BMW 525i, 87 BMW 328ic and a few domestic vans and wagons not worth mentioning...