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Wasted youth
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Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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 Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:00 pm Post subject: Horn wiring repair |
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Trying to fix a P.O. hack. 1973 bus, horn didn't ever work when I got it. Horn is actually good, tested it straight. Horn button removed showed ground wire off spade terminal. Reattached. No horn. Checked wire jumper between rubber section at base of steering near steering box. Found broken wire, and a bypass wire from the steering column base pick up. Repaired both the base wire back to the original wire, then repaired the broken wire on this section:
Now, horn runs constantly with ignition on. Disconnecting wire at horn button does not relieve this.
What to check next  |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51130
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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It's likely the column tube is grounding somewhere, the ignition switch should have a plastic sleeve in it where it clamps onto the tube and the base should sit in a plastic collar at the floor plate.
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^Thanks. I understand from other threads the tube is 'hot', not grounded. I also read a few threads discussing these problems associated with the turn signal assembly, but I got lost in trying to interpret what folks were saying. Bentley not too helpful in this regard; more helpful if your horn doesn't work. |
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75bus4/me
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Joined: November 10, 2011
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Location: Arizona
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:50 am Post subject: |
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^^Thanks! That thread, and the threads buried inside, are way better than what I found yesterday. Lots of things to get busy on now.  |
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:35 pm Post subject: Horn Early Repair |
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68-74 VIN 214 2 164060
the beloved horn ground wire tab
| 70Crew wrote: |
There are 2 wires you need to connect on the steering column.
The first wire is the column tube ground. There is a short wire that comes off the main wiring harness and ends up right next to the steering gear box. This wire needs to be routed through the metal loop (A) on the underside of the cover plate and then attached to the tab that sticks out from the end of the column tube (B). These tabs break off easily; I have 3 column tubes and 2 of the ground tabs are missing (broken off). I attached this ground wire with the steering column, gear box and cover plate in place. It took a lot of cussing, a shop light and a pair of Harbor Freight extra-long needle nose pliers but it is definitely possible (see space G.... yep, that's pretty tight). The alternative is to remove the gear box which I didn’t want to hassle with.
The second wire (also a ground wire?) is brown and runs from the top of the steering column (C) to just above the gear box. The steering column is hollow and this wire runs through the center of it. The bottom end of this wire has a large loop wire terminal that fits around one of the 4 hex head M8 bolts that connect the steering column to the coupling disk and top of the gear box. There is a small gap (D) between the coupling disk and top of the gearbox which allows you to feed that wire (E) from the column and around the corner to one of the hex head bolts (F). I attached it on the bottom, under a nut, so that the contact was metal to metal rather than nut to rubber. I’m not 100% sure that is how it was done from the factory but it makes sense to me (anyone out there know better?).
Bentley says you are supposed to install the column tube first and then the steering column from underneath. That was not possible without a lift so I installed the entire assembly from the top. I did it alone and the only part that was remotely difficult was attaching the aforementioned column tube ground wire.
Good luck and holler if you have any questions.
Chris
(MiOdy81) |
Good Luck
Tcash
Last edited by Tcash on Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:59 am; edited 8 times in total |
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Dana Champion
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Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 633
Location: Ventura County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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As long as I've had this bus(12 years), I've never had the horn work. I admit I dabbled with it a few times but not to the extent that I did today. It helps to post questions, and of course any help to offer out. Today I got out the big guns, and used my multi tester. First I want to thank those who inspired me to take this to the next level after posting on the blinker page.
I fired up the bus to let it warm up a bit, charge the battery, since I don't drive it enough, and deliver 12 volts to the horn. I determined the hot wire with the tester, unplugged the ground wire, put a wire lead on it, grounded it to the chassis, and my hair stood up, it worked!
Having already removed the horn button, and after reconnecting the ground to the horn, I pressed on the horn ring, nothing. So, I removed the wire connection, and hit the steering wheel nut to ground it , and it worked, Halleluiah ! It just doesn't work on the horn ring. I need to take it apart and see whusup . I am just thankful it isn't the lower connection in the column. I will update after further investigation. Should be fairly simple at this point. Any thoughts ?
Thanks, Dana
My horn - a bunch of debris came out while grounding it,after years of not working  |
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Dana Champion wrote: |
| Any thoughts ? |
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Dana Champion
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Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 633
Location: Ventura County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:34 pm Post subject: '70 horn button |
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After discovering that my horn actually works, I removed the horn button, to discover this. Talk about bad grounds.
I cleaned the contacts
Put it back together, it works !
Sometimes, it takes just a little motivation....
Thanks for the help!
So if your horn doesn't work, you might check the contact under the button. I can't believe how grungy that was. I can't wait to " toot " my own horn now!
Peace |
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bad gas
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Joined: November 25, 2014
Posts: 12
Location: Bremerton, WA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: |
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I've been debugging my horn issues and the thread gives great info. My situation is my horn works fine but it also sounds when I pull up on the turn signal lever to turn off or on my high beams. Yesterday I pulled apart the lever housing from the column to check for bad wires and they all looked good. I also pulled the button and cleaned up the ground connection, cleaned all that crud out that built up over the years. When I put it back together same issue with button and with hi beams lever pull. I then noticed the lever appears to be completing the ground against the signal housing since I could see a little spark at the contact. I wrapped the lever with some electrical tape and it stopped the issue. I guess my question is how would this happen? Would it be due to the wires at the bottom of the steering column? I poked around under the bus and it looked good. Just sort of scratching my head over how that lever making contact with the housing completes the circuit just like the button does.
I have a 73 seven passenger bus I picked up last summer in very neglected shape. I have been slowly going through various wiring bugaboos and making good progress. I'm happy the tape fixed the issue but to me it's just a bandaid and not fixing the real root problem. Any advice appreciated.
Rob |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51130
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| bad gas wrote: |
I've been debugging my horn issues and the thread gives great info. My situation is my horn works fine but it also sounds when I pull up on the turn signal lever to turn off or on my high beams. Yesterday I pulled apart the lever housing from the column to check for bad wires and they all looked good. I also pulled the button and cleaned up the ground connection, cleaned all that crud out that built up over the years. When I put it back together same issue with button and with hi beams lever pull. I then noticed the lever appears to be completing the ground against the signal housing since I could see a little spark at the contact. I wrapped the lever with some electrical tape and it stopped the issue. I guess my question is how would this happen? Would it be due to the wires at the bottom of the steering column? I poked around under the bus and it looked good. Just sort of scratching my head over how that lever making contact with the housing completes the circuit just like the button does.
I have a 73 seven passenger bus I picked up last summer in very neglected shape. I have been slowly going through various wiring bugaboos and making good progress. I'm happy the tape fixed the issue but to me it's just a bandaid and not fixing the real root problem. Any advice appreciated.
Rob |
Reattach the solid brown colored wire from the signal switch to the back of the instrument cluster 
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bad gas
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2014
Posts: 12
Location: Bremerton, WA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info. I will trace that brown (ground?) wire like you mentioned after work tonight. My assumption is that is a ground for the switch so if it's disconnected is the reason for the lever triggering the horn due to the lever completing ground through the column? Just curious.
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Rob
Bringing back to life a 1973 VW seven passenger bus |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51130
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Exactly, it's using the horn for a ground path.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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kreemoweet
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Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3898
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
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The dimmer switch part of the T/S switch is supposed to be completely isolated from any other part in there, so something is clearly wrong
if operating the lever does anything else except dim the headlights. In fact, since the lever is contacting the housing when operated, you
probably do not have the correct switch, or it is installed wrong. It seems that somehow the ground wire going to the dimmer switch is
contacting parts it should not. The only "grounded" parts in that area should be the ring under the horn button (and it's attached wire), and
the grounded contact for the dimmer switch (and its attached wire). Everything else should be either "hot" or isolated.
I can see no way that simply having the dimmer switch ground wire disconnected at the cluster or body could have any effect on the
horn or turn signal operation.
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bad gas
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2014
Posts: 12
Location: Bremerton, WA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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I traced the brown ground wire to the spot where it connects to the front end to ground. There were no breaks or worn spots, but I did clean the connection to the grounding tab. Tested the hi beam lever again and same issue of sounding the horn. I put tape on the lever for my band aid fix, but I am pretty certain I need a new turn signal/hi beam switch. Since. I got this bus last summer the hi beams turning on or off has been spotty. Sometimes when I would turn the lights on they would start as hibeam and I would have to lever them off, but then I can't turn them back on. The switch looks original so I'll try to track down a replacement.
Thanks for your advice
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Rob
Bringing back to life a 1973 VW seven passenger bus |
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SkooobaSteve
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stwesty
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Joined: May 10, 2015
Posts: 128
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| YOUBUGME2 wrote: |
| How do you remove the lower ring on the steering column. |
Do you mean #14 and #17 in the second diagram posted by TCash above? If so, I just had the same question this weekend and figured it out:
1. Remove steering wheel
2. Remove your turn signal mechanism (varies by year)
3. Remove any bolts connecting the casing with the ignition in it to the dashboard frame
4. Remove the two bolts holding down the base cover plate (#17)
5. Pull up on the column tube (#12)
With some gentle coaxing, the column tube should come loose and then you can get at the ground tab underneath the cover plate (#17).
I kept looking for other bolts underneath the bus after pulling on it didn't work but it turned out I just needed to pull a bit harder and twist it a bit.
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1974 Westfalia, automatic, dual-carb |
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Horn wiring repair |
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| Wasted youth wrote: |
Trying to fix a P.O. hack. 1973 bus, horn didn't ever work when I got it. Horn is actually good, tested it straight. Horn button removed showed ground wire off spade terminal. Reattached. No horn. Checked wire jumper between rubber section at base of steering near steering box. Found broken wire, and a bypass wire from the steering column base pick up. Repaired both the base wire back to the original wire, then repaired the broken wire on this section:
Now, horn runs constantly with ignition on. Disconnecting wire at horn button does not relieve this.
What to check next |
Clearing up some old post.
The picture showing the jumper wire going from the steering shaft to the steering box flange you borrowed from hazetguy is for a 74-79.
Connected this way would cause the horn to sound constantly on the 68-73 models.
68-L74 the Brown wire coming out of the middle of the steering shaft connects directly to the steering box flange like so.
Tcash |
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MikeSoCal
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 47
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Horn wiring repair |
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Sorry to bring up an old thread but I was wondering what the easiest workaround would be if the tab in the column tube is broken off and I do not want to remove the steering column? Can I run new wires bypassing the tab? I have seen images of people tapping into the tube by the brake pedal but I don't want to do that either. The horn is fine and so is the wire going from horn button to steering coupler. I just have the wire hanging that should be going inside the tube. Can I run that wire up to the top of the tube and connect it somehwhere under the horn button? Thanks!
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kreemoweet
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Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3898
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Horn wiring repair |
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Given that you do not seem inclined to actually fix the horn wiring problem, the simplest alternative would be to install
a push-button somewhere on the dash and wire it to control the horn, bypassing the original stuff entirely.
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