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turn signal flasher too fast
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Kevinwterry
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: turn signal flasher too fast Reply with quote

so ive got my buggy 95% wired finally. ive noticed my turn signal flasher is really fast. too fast.. im using the stock flasher that was in the donor bug. 74 superbeatle. the front signals flash fast, which is fine because it still clearly looks like im turning one way or another. its the rears that dont work well. same flasher for both, but im using a single dual filement bulb for my runners and turn/stop. ive wired them as per dale m.'s drawings using relays. they work, just really dim. dim because the flasher is flashing faster than the relays can operate. so im getting a real quick, dim signal to the rear.

what can i do? ive been trying to find info on this and all i can find is stuff on led setups which just adds to the confusion. are there slower flashers? or what about some sort of resistor? and will either affect the turn/stop relay setup im using?
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nightmanx11
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you checked your ground wire?
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Mike_CNYBuggy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you using a flasher module or just the relay's?
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jspbtown
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Highly likely a poor ground out back.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jspbtown wrote:
Highly likely a poor ground out back.


Don't just check the wires for ground, check the bulb sockets too. I had an issue where my flasher was slow or didn't even work and it was a bad ground wire at the bulb socket. drove me nuts.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ground is key, but you may need a ballast resistor in parallel. If you have a 10-20w bulb, try about a 10 ohm resistor in parallel. That should increase your amps to about 1A and allow the bimettalic thermal flasher to work better.

Test it on the bench first, if you can, and add or subtract reisitance to achieve the flash rate you desire. Remember, parallel (across the light) and not in series.

Of course, this only after the grounds are checked to be good.
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Kevinwterry
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so ground isnt an issue. checked it. no problems there. even grabbed a chunk of wire and went from battery to ground post on the light housing. its hard to explain. id like to post a video to show you guys, but i dont know how.

the fast flasher doesnt bother me. its the fact that you cant tell that my turn signal is on when i push on the brakes. im using the same filliment in the bulb for stop/turn. turn signals work fine. brake lights work fine. its just when i use them atvthe same time it just makes the brake light kind of flicker. it needs to be more of an on,off,on,off. its like the filiment doesnt have enough time to turn all the way off before the flasher is turning it back on.

or maybe ive got something wired wrong?
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jspbtown
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normally I would say install a heavy duty flasher but since you say that your fronts are working fine that would rule out the flasher itself.

That leaves you with the wiring in and from the relays back to the rear lights. So to answer your question...yes. You have something wired wrong.

You need to go through all the relays and all the wires. Make sure the relays are good. Are they wired correctly? Power feeds to the right spots? grounds to the right spots? Your park lights wired the right way?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im going to assume that the front and rear turn signals are wired together. If they are, then the flashing of the fronts and rears are at the same rate. However, if the rear is on a different circuit (relay) then is the original 74 relay the thermal type? I believe it is. That means that there isnt enough current going through the thermal switch to keep it on longer and thus it drops out as soon as it makes contact. That makes the signal only blip and not stay on.

If you have separate relays for front and rear, check the rear bulb with an ohmmeter. Should be reading very little. If thats the case, then you can try to add a resistor in parallel to increase the current flow in the circuit and keep the thermal flasher engaged longer.

Or, you could go with a solid state solution with a 555 timer and a capacitor circuit that would charge and discharge to allow your signal to blink. The cap would regulate the blinking on how fast or slow it charged and discharged.

Hope this helps. Oh...did you try a different thermal relay? Perhaps the old one is...well...old and worn out. It does happen!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedBaronofRedBud wrote:
Oh...did you try a different thermal relay? Perhaps the old one is...well...old and worn out. It does happen!


I have purchased brand new relay's at the auto parts store that were bad straight out of the package.

Why not just go with an aftermarket turn signal and a flasher module?

Also, are you using LED lights?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedBaronofRedBud......he is using Dale's relay set up.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jspbtown wrote:
RedBaronofRedBud......he is using Dale's relay set up.


Ok, looks like a simple enough setup, but the problem seems to be with the thermal relay. Try a different relay and see what happens. They arent very expensive. The thermal is dependent on the resistance of the circuit, so the different bulbs in the circuit have an effect as well.

Did you remove the bulb from the front turn signal and try it? Did you remove it from the rear one and try it? See if there is a difference in speed.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


im using this setup.

i must have done something wrong. now that i think about it, the turn/stop filiment is trying to do both. i dont know why. when i step on the brakes, the tail light goes on. now while im on the brake peddle, and turn the signal on, the relay should stop sending power from the brake switch, and send it from the flasher right? so it should flash the same as if i wasnt on the brakes. i think its trying to do both. its the same for the left and right rears. im going to go play around removing bumbs and chasing wires.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevinwterry wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


im using this setup.

i must have done something wrong. now that i think about it, the turn/stop filiment is trying to do both. i dont know why. when i step on the brakes, the tail light goes on. now while im on the brake peddle, and turn the signal on, the relay should stop sending power from the brake switch, and send it from the flasher right? so it should flash the same as if i wasnt on the brakes. i think its trying to do both. its the same for the left and right rears. im going to go play around removing bumbs and chasing wires.


Yes, when you turn on the signal, the power should be sent to the relay and and switch the power to the other circuit. If its doing both, then then you have something wrong with your wiring. Check your circuits and youll probably find it. I find that labeling the wires helps too.

Have fun chasing wires!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im lost.... i ive undone every connection and just did one side of the rear circuit. i took apart the hazard lighg setup, pulled the front bulbs. simplified everything. its still doing the same thing. i have noticed though, is that the relay is clicking at the pace as the flasher. why is that? it shouldnt click at all unless im using the brake then apply the turn signal.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you have your hazards set up?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im pretty sure i have my hazards wired in a way in which frys relays...lol. ive got my kids and no car seats at the moment, so ill have to pick up a couple of new relays and maybe a new flasher while im at it tomorrow. the ill hook them up as per dales drawing and nothing more. then, if successful, ill need help with trying to add front turn signals, and then hazards.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is better system when using relays.... Integrating STOP and TURNSIGNAL on same filament of bulb can be a problem....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And in both circuits you have to understand flasher and stop light circuits work through make or break (NO/NC) contacts of relays, relays DO NOT FOLLOW flasher pulses, the relays only operate and release through control of toggle switch or turn signal switch, if relays are following flasher, something is wired wrong...

IF you have flasher wired in ahead of turnsignal switch that is part of your problem.... Relay circuits are meant to be powered by pure 12 volt signal on/off/on per switch...


IN two relay circuit ONLY ONE relay should operate at any given time when turn signal switch is operated....

Two relay circuit was never meant to operate front flashers, if you are trying to integrate front flasher with ultra simple 2 relay circuit For rear flashers you are causing your self a nightmare...

IN 4 relay circuit only 2 associated relays (L1 & L2 or R1 & R2) should operate when turn signal switch is operated...

Dale
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Kevinwterry
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so its probably the fact that i tried wiring up the front signals and the hazards into dales setup that caused all my problems.

so before i go and buy some more relays and wire it up as per dales 4 relay setup, will i be able to add the hazard switch into this somehow? or is that going to be a totally seperate setup? i need them to function for it to be road legal.

and in the 4 relay setup, the flasher terminals are labled x l p. do i need a different flasher, or will any 3 prong flasher work. the one i have has i belive a 30, 49, and a ground. the 30 is power, 49 is to relays, but dales picture says to hook up "p" to an indicator bulb. would that be like the one in my speedometer?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flashers don't need a ground. Maybe thats your issue.

Well let me correct that. They need the resistance of the ground to make the flash happen but they don't need to be wired with a ground.
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