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2088bob Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 13 Location: waterloo ontario canada
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:29 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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I realize I am posting from Canada actually the province Ontario and we here feel your pain as well just something you might to be aware as well we have no trouble titling our cars our problem is nobody will sell us insurance with the exception of a very expensive type of insurance referred to as facility a very costly proposition and only a very few insurance brokers are offering us that
ihave a 2 seat street legal sandrail which has been on the street sinc 1986 it now costs me almost $300 bucks a month to keep the car on the road thank god we only have a very short season to use our cars |
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Klacko Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2019 Posts: 3 Location: D/FW TX
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Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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I may be on the brink of getting a dune buggy, so this thread has snagged my attention. Is the issue resolved? The seller has it registered in another state currently, but I’d want to register it with TXDMV. |
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KingCarGuyZ Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2019 Posts: 117 Location: Dallas
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:06 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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I registered mine about a month ago, no problems. Though she is registered as a 1966 beetle and was registered before in Texas as a 1966 beetle, don’t think ever registered as a “buggy” or anything crazy like that. Just take it to a flexible inspection shop and don’t mention it to the nice lady at the DMV/DPS and you are good. My insurance didn't seem to care, they asked if it was modified and of course I told them and there like, “ahh so long as you haven’t stuffed a V8 in the back where all good.” That was my experience at least, I’ve heard of some people trips through hell, but mine wasn’t bad. Even got classic plates for her. |
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vincent9993 Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2006 Posts: 2025 Location: Montreal
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:35 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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KingCarGuyZ wrote: |
I registered mine about a month ago, no problems. Though she is registered as a 1966 beetle and was registered before in Texas as a 1966 beetle, don’t think ever registered as a “buggy” or anything crazy like that. Just take it to a flexible inspection shop and don’t mention it to the nice lady at the DMV/DPS and you are good. My insurance didn't seem to care, they asked if it was modified and of course I told them and there like, “ahh so long as you haven’t stuffed a V8 in the back where all good.” That was my experience at least, I’ve heard of some people trips through hell, but mine wasn’t bad. Even got classic plates for her. |
You're missing the point... We've spent a lot of money and people have invested a lot of personal time to get the problem fixed. You're not describing a solution, you're illegally registering and mis-representing your buggy. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the subject, you'll understand why what you're suggesting does not work... |
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KingCarGuyZ Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2019 Posts: 117 Location: Dallas
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:36 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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I’ve been watching this form since that start, I know there are better ways to do it that are implemented now, but frankly where I live the cops love it and don’t care, so it was easier for me especially since this car has been a buggy all of its life in Texas and registered as a beetle, trying to change it now would be more hassle then it’s worth. This is how I choose to do my car, and what I would honestly call a option for other people, if you don’t like it, don’t do it you won’t hurt my feelings, it’s just a story of what I choose to do. |
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vincent9993 Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2006 Posts: 2025 Location: Montreal
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:37 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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KingCarGuyZ wrote: |
I’ve been watching this form since that start, I know there are better ways to do it that are implemented now, but frankly where I live the cops love it and don’t care, so it was easier for me especially since this car has been a buggy all of its life in Texas and registered as a beetle, trying to change it now would be more hassle then it’s worth. This is how I choose to do my car, and what I would honestly call a option for other people, if you don’t like it, don’t do it you won’t hurt my feelings, it’s just a story of what I choose to do. |
Fair enough but it's not about what law enforcement is going to do but you may receive a revocation letter from the DMV as others have... |
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KingCarGuyZ Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2019 Posts: 117 Location: Dallas
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:39 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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True, that’s a risk I have to live with, then I would have to go through the proper steps, but so long as I don’t tell them, I doubt they will care enough to find out. |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4927 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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KingCarGuyZ wrote: |
True, that’s a risk I have to live with, then I would have to go through the proper steps, but so long as I don’t tell them, I doubt they will care enough to find out. |
...you just publicly posted what you did that goes against the rules of law.
bnc _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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Klacko Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2019 Posts: 3 Location: D/FW TX
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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Well, I can’t say the news is good. I went in person to the TXDMV, and a clerk, and two supervisors told me dune buggies are prohibited, and no titles would be issued for dune buggies.
I emailed TXDMV in Austin, the rep couldn’t say the legal definition of a dune buggy, but I was told they were prohibited. Sand rails were restricted to off-road only. They were defined “as having
a tubular frame and integrated roll cage, and engine that is rear mounted or placed midway between the front and rear axles, a gross weight between 700 and 2, 000 pounds, and is designed or built primarily for off highway use in sandy terrains.” She also gave me this link: https://www.txdmv.gov/publications-tac/doc_download/3080-title-manual .
That’s the TX DOT Motor Vehicle Title Manual (Oct. 2019). It states:
Not Eligible for Texas Title
The term “motor vehicle” does not apply to the following, which are not eligible to be titled:
• vehicles designed or determined by the department to be a dune buggy; ☹️ |
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greenmanx Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2005 Posts: 152 Location: The Lone Star State
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Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:43 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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You guys REALLY need to visit the Save the Texas Dune Buggy page on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/SavetheTexasDuneBuggy/?ref=bookmarks. Faron Smith, ([email protected]) who has been leading the charge and helped get a bill passed to correct the DMVs manual to allow dune buggies. They are beginning the rules making process so nothing is in stone yet. Please don't undermine all the hard work and dollars that have been sacrificed for the hobby by circumventing the law. |
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BuggyFaron Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2005 Posts: 441 Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
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Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:49 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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Klacko and I have talked about the issue. I explained to him that we have been working on this for 2 years at this point. We have a bill that has been passed as a law, that was supposed to go into effect on September 1, 2019, but there were bills that were passed that had a larger effect on the general public, so 86(R)HB1755 was pushed back some. (Sure it sucks, but it is for the greater good) That being said, I have been appointed to the Vehicles Title and Registration Advisory Committee that is tentatively scheduled to start in November. I do keep everyone up to date via the Save the Texas Dune Buggy Sandrail, Kitcar page, and the website is kept up by Allan. www.savethetexasdunebuggy.com
Klacko sent me a picture of the Assembled Vehicle & it will without a doubt be classified as a Sandrail under the new law. The bummer part of that is the restrictions that were placed on Sandrails. You will be able to get a Sandrail Titled, so you will be able to show proof of ownership. But you will not be able to get it Registered, so it will not be street legal. You will have limited use on the streets, I liken it to that of a golf cart. I give you my word, that I will still fight for Sandrail Owners, but I am pretty sure that we will have to take this fight up again for Sandrails in the next legislative session.
KingCarGuyZ wrote: |
I registered mine about a month ago, no problems. Though she is registered as a 1966 beetle and was registered before in Texas as a 1966 beetle, don’t think ever registered as a “buggy” or anything crazy like that. Just take it to a flexible inspection shop and don’t mention it to the nice lady at the DMV/DPS and you are good. My insurance didn't seem to care, they asked if it was modified and of course, I told them and there like, “ahh so long as you haven’t stuffed a V8 in the back where all good.” That was my experience at least, I’ve heard of some people trips through hell, but mine wasn’t bad. Even got classic plates for her. |
I understand why you Titled & Registered your vehicle this way. But I will tell you that it is illegal for a couple of reasons. The bottom line is that it is a risk, and you said that it is a risk you are willing to take. I am sure that you only see that the risk you take can only affect you, but that can not be farther from the truth. You risk it all for everyone else who chooses to own an Assembled Vehicle, Titling & Registering the way you choose to is a part of the problem, I have personally heard that from the executives at the TxDMV. But you do you!
Titling an Assembled Vehicle as a VW Bug is a Federal Offence, it is called Falsifying a Legal Document. If the body of the vehicle has been removed or modified so much that it no longer resembles the Manufacturers's Original design it is no longer a Bug. Pure and simple it is no longer a VW Bug, it is now a Sandrail.
Your Insurance Agent failed to tell you that what you are doing is called Insurance Fraud. But again, this is a risk that you said you are willing to take. I hope it never happens, but should you get into an accident where you need to call in a claim with your Sandrail. When the adjuster takes a look at the car and sees that it is NO Longer a VW Bug the claim will be denied. All of that money that you are paying month in and month out will all be for not because your claim will be denied.
KingCarGuyZ wrote: |
I’ve been watching this form since that start, I know there are better ways to do it that are implemented now, but frankly where I live the cops love it and don’t care, so it was easier for me especially since this car has been a buggy all of its life in Texas and registered as a beetle, trying to change it now would be more hassle then it’s worth. This is how I choose to do my car, and what I would honestly call a option for other people, if you don’t like it, don’t do it you won’t hurt my feelings, it’s just a story of what I choose to do. |
This is NOT an issue where we need to worry about the DPS, in fact I know a few Police Officers who choose to own Assembled Vehicles & they feel the issue we started with was goofy as well. This is is an issue concerning TxDMV and being able to LEGALLY Title & Register our Assembled Vehicles.
To close, it is understood that there are people who will choose to do things in a way that works for them. They don't take into consideration that they choose to do could have farther reaching consequences then for them singularly. We do not need to argue about that fact, as it will be a lot like arguing with a fence post. Nothing will be gained in the end. So rather than argue, we just move forward and do what we can to correct the issue. |
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Klacko Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2019 Posts: 3 Location: D/FW TX
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Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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I’ll be in the corner, sulking grumpily. 😡 Watching this space. |
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BuggyFaron Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2005 Posts: 441 Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
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Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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I am really active on the Facebook page, easier to keep people up to date in one place. |
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8700 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:09 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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If they allow sandrails on the roads, why not allow ATV Side-by-Sides too? What is the difference? Which is safer?
I suspect this is what someone at the DMV was trying to avoid when this all started. _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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BuggyFaron Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2005 Posts: 441 Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
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Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:40 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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That was a portion of the issue. |
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BuggyFaron Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2005 Posts: 441 Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
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Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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BuggyFaron wrote: |
That was a portion of the issue. |
A very small portion at that. |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5481 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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BuggyFaron wrote: |
Titling an Assembled Vehicle as a VW Bug is a Federal Offence, it is called Falsifying a Legal Document. If the body of the vehicle has been removed or modified so much that it no longer resembles the Manufacturers's Original design it is no longer a Bug. |
I don't know about "Federal Offence." It used to be the correct way to title a Beach Buggy (or any Kit Car built from a vehicle of a recognized manufacturer) in my state. I still have the guide (equipment requirements) booklet from the State Patrol. In fact, I don't see how I could redo the title to a modern "KITV" title as most of the requirements are about proving legal purchase of the major components.
Some states may consider it a serious offense. They would need to define what can and cannot be changed without changing the title. Has Texas created guidelines about what cannot be changed without retitling? _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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BuggyFaron Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2005 Posts: 441 Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
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Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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EVfun wrote: |
BuggyFaron wrote: |
Titling an Assembled Vehicle as a VW Bug is a Federal Offence, it is called Falsifying a Legal Document. If the body of the vehicle has been removed or modified so much that it no longer resembles the Manufacturers's Original design it is no longer a Bug. |
I don't know about "Federal Offence." It used to be the correct way to title a Beach Buggy (or any Kit Car built from a vehicle of a recognized manufacturer) in my state. I still have the guide (equipment requirements) booklet from the State Patrol. In fact, I don't see how I could redo the title to a modern "KITV" title as most of the requirements are about proving legal purchase of the major components.
Some states may consider it a serious offense. They would need to define what can and cannot be changed without changing the title. Has Texas created guidelines about what cannot be changed without retitling? |
I was told by a very reliable source that it is a federal offense to falsify a legal document. That reliable source was the Director of the Titles and Registration Division of the TxDMV, & he said that while he had a staff attorney sitting next to him shaking his head up and down. At that moment we were talking about how people were Title & Registering a Dune Buggy as a VW Bug.
In the new law, a definition of each car will be spelled out. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20380 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:27 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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Cali sort of crossed the bridge a long time ago....
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/spcnsreg
See statement about VW Beetle ...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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KingCarGuyZ Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2019 Posts: 117 Location: Dallas
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:39 am Post subject: Re: No more NEW Registrations in Texas? |
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I wonder if you constructed the vehicle before the law was innacted if your grandfathered on emissions? |
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