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alternator and strater problem - long, but fairly detailed
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Criswell
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 11:09 am    Post subject: alternator and strater problem - long, but fairly detailed Reply with quote

ok here goes ...
My started hasnt been engaging correctly for a few days (loud hum , not a solenoid click ),

The bus will pop start just fine, so i thought maybe it was a crappy connection, and started noseying around.

I found the positive terminal looked pretty bad so i replaced it with a fancy one from a car stereo shop (one of the real nice ones thats ??platinum?? coated i believe). I also bought a voltage monitor that plugs into the lighter. Well, it actually started after i put that on (the new post terminal) , but only once. this was during the daytime. As nighttime rolled around,

I had the tester plugged in and it was reading 12.5-12.7 , and as soon as my lights were turned on, it started fluctuating between 11.4 and 12.4 , but the little "bars" showing the "current charge of the battery" itself dropped to 1 bar, and zero , fluctuating (with lights off it would charge back up to full bars , i stopped and checked b/c i was nervous about ruining the battery , which is a new OPTIMA sporal cell , not an acid filled)

On type2.com it says it should be 13.5-14.5 so im ASSUMING i need a new alternator because it also says if its overcharging, its the regulator, if undercharging, its the alternator itself. i also have a feeling that once the charging system is working correctly my starter problem will go away

i know that i basically answered my own question here , but i just wanted any advice that anyone may have from previous experiences (like simple common problems often overlooked)

I did just think of one thing, i recently put a fuse in the spot for the dome lights/hazzards (#8 fuse i believe) to get them working , and that seemed to be around the same time it started, so i think im gonna check that out quick.

sorry this is so long, i just wanted to try to be thorough , and not just say "my starter dont work and my alternator seems funny whats wrong with my bus" i get that stuff and i knwo how frustrating NOT ENUFF INFO can be ...
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wgargan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allright , heres my answer CHECK THE GROUND STRAP FROM THE TRANNY TO THE FRAME. if your not sure if it is corroded replace it any way its only like 5 bucks. i dont think your charging system is f-d up because you are measuring the voltage from the cigarette lighter, ther might be some resistence or something that creates a lower reading. and the accessory electronics are grounded to the body thats why they work. the starter is gounded to the engine/tranny and the engine/tranny is grounded to the frame. to check the voltage output you need to check it at the battery.
hope this helps
and if i am wrong on anything i will be corrected
lc
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Criswell
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, my starter problem is fixed ... hard start relay did the trick ..

as for my charging system, i had advance auto (they are "the competiton" where i work) check it with the wonderful handcart tester and it checked out to be charging fine ... just a tad low, but OK (13.3 or 13.4 i think)

sooo, i think im good to go for now ...

btw, i didnt see this in time to see that ya said to chrck the ground strap , ill check that tomorrow when its daylight again
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wgargan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whats the hard start relay, its not stock is it?
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Amskeptic
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hard-start relay is a Time-Tested VW Bus Trick designed to overcome the resistance in the wiring that energizes the starter solenoid. That wiring has to travel 26 feet, from the battery to the ignition switch and back to the solenoid where it has to have sufficient amperage remaining to actually pull the pinion into engagement. It gains resistance over time.
The relay serves exactly the same purpose as a wrench across the 13mm terminal to the solenoid spade when you are trying to start your Bus in the rain when you're late dressed up. You hook one of the big terminals of the relay to the 13mm terminal. The other big terminal goes to the solenoid spade. The relay's control terminal is where you put the wire from the ignition switch that used to go the solenoid spade.
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wgargan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool thanks colin, i'm glad you mentioned the wrench across the terminals because if you hadnt, i would have had no clue.
lc
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ratwell
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luckys420, read this article. Relays: the cure for the common bus. Unfortunately with the battery so far away from the electrics up front, adding this realy is a necessary addition. I put on one so I don't find out at the worst possible time: road trip.
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Criswell
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine started out from the time i got it back up and running (from its year long off the road hiatus). at first, it was taking 2-3 turns to get it started, just a little sluggish, and then it out of the blue just made a horrible loud hum noise, and WOULD NOT budge the bendix. bow its better than ever ....

"hard start relay 2000 did wonders for my bus just look <vroom> starts right up ... thank you hard start 2000"

it cost me like 5 bucks to buy the nessecary stuff (bulldog pt #775 , common automotive anti theft device company) i swapped the wires to the right place , and like emerill "BAM" started right up
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Last edited by Criswell on Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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ratwell
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZEUS wrote:
"hard start relay 2000 did wonders for my bus just look <vroom> starts right up ... thank you hard start 2000"


If you bought hard start relay 2000 in the store it could cost you up to $39 at a name brand department store. But today we're offering it below cost but wait, there's more. If you call in now, we'll also give you the state of Kansas jello mold absolutely free. Hard start relay 2000: it will change you life forever.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<dull monotone> " I couldn't be more pleased with my Hard Start 2000 booster relay, for many years my wife Betty Sue would call me at work to tell me that our Bus Oscar wouldn't start at the hair-dresser's or the pharmacy or the local supermarket, but since we installed the Hard Start 2000 Betty Sue doesn't call me at work a million times a day to get her fat ass out of a jam like I don't have enough goddam things to do to make a little money around here so she can go blow it all on an outrageous Visa bill while shopping with those bovine dimwits who bitch and moan about how their husbands are never home well duh for chrissakes who would want to sit around listening to them fret about how their designer pantsuits that aren't made big enough to cart that load of cellulite around to their stupid coffee klatches. . . . . oh, sorry, we just love our Hard Start 2000, and we are telling our friends about it."
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL Very Happy
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Criswell
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HA i just finally noticed i spelled starter wrong

Anyways Im still having my electrical problem with the alternator light.

I replaced the voltage regulator , and now with the lights off, i have a steady 13.5-13.8 ... doent budge higher or lower ... and with the lights on, it only drops to 13.0 and 13.2 .... but the friggin light keeps coming on, and when it does, the turn signals and fuel gauge stop working also . is this a built in safety feature to conserve power or does it sound like its something else.
Also, i didnt get to check the strap from tranny to chassis yet.
The negative wire off the battery is connected to my case. not the chassis itself .. Would i be better off grounding it to something else ?
Maybe ill go check the tranny strap while i wait for a response, even though its dark and pretty darn cold out.
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Amskeptic
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZEUS wrote:
HA i just finally noticed i spelled starter wrong

but the friggin light keeps coming on, and when it does, the turn signals and fuel gauge stop working also . is this a built in safety feature to conserve power or does it sound like its something else.


I would ensure that your battery negative is grounded to the chassis.
I would then ensure that your engine/transaxle is grounded to the chassis.
I would then look carefully at your wiring under the dash in the gauge cluster, and even the relay/fuse panel.
Colin
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Criswell
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so its better to NOT have the ground run to the case , i figured it was that way factory, so i better keep it that way. was this how it was run when new ? i noticed my buddies bus is the same way.
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AZ_Ron
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another Relay success. Our bus had the relay on it when I got it, then we went through a huge big-to-do with it not wanting to start via the key switch. Anyhow, someone who is supposedly VW savvy came by and offered to help me get the starter situated... He saw the relay and said I didn't need that "crap", and proceeded to tear it out. Once we got the keyswitch to work, it's been hit or miss for the past 2 weeks on whether she'd start or not...didn't matter if it was hot or cold...it was even odds.
I reinstalled it this evening, and she fired right up. I'm going to lay down a bet that our starter problem is a thing of the past.
Thanks guys!!! It's is an unbelievable JOY to have The Samba as such an incredible resource!!

Ron
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Criswell
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine just straight up wouldnt work ... no hit or niss ... id hit the key and all id get was a hum ... glad it worked for ya ryan ...
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