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Type 3 brakes on 63 Panel
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roundhouse72
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muthashabubu you will def see it at Larry's and Volksfest next month....debating on taking it to Goodguy's this friday in Columbus. I really want to hit a show like that and see muscle car/hot rod guys heads explode. hahaha

Give me a shout at one of the shows man!
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Muthashabubu
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roundhouse72 wrote:

Thanks for all your help and suggestions, moral of the story is don't take the easy way and buy shit parts from local chains. Spend a little more and get the good stuff you can count on.

x100 on this^
I trust the local chains for modern cars but not my dubs.
Loving the look of your panel! Hope to see it this year sometime.
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joe56vw
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

those were probably super beetle front wheel cylinders
those new chain stores do not have good cross references for older cars

I once went in to get a start for a '74 bug and they handed me a 6v one cause that was what there computer said Rolling Eyes
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roundhouse72
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Guys....got back on the brakes this weekend and I think we solved the mystery. We changed out the shitty AutoZone "type 3" (I put that in "" because I think they are just a one size fits all BS part #) wheel cylinders with nicer German units. The difference was immediately noticeable, the AutoZone cylinders were 3mm bigger each side and were pushing the pads too far out then not releasing correctly. The size difference was only really noticeable when you compared overall length with the German cylinders.

Took it out for about a 20 minute cruise and got no pedal stiffening, no buildup of heat and it performed much, much better.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions, moral of the story is don't take the easy way and buy shit parts from local chains. Spend a little more and get the good stuff you can count on.
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mile High Puma wrote:
I had a master cylinder that would build brake pressure as I drove it until the rear brakes would get tight and lock up until I let it sit for a while. Found that the piston inside was not retracting back far enough to completely open the bleed port which let's fluid back into the reservoir. If you take it out and shine a light into the bleed port while pushing in the rod you should be able to see the piston seal go past it, it should not be blocked when off the brakes.


Pretty sure that this is exactly what happens there is not enough pedal/pushrod freeplay.
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Mile High Puma
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a master cylinder that would build brake pressure as I drove it until the rear brakes would get tight and lock up until I let it sit for a while. Found that the piston inside was not retracting back far enough to completely open the bleed port which let's fluid back into the reservoir. If you take it out and shine a light into the bleed port while pushing in the rod you should be able to see the piston seal go past it, it should not be blocked when off the brakes.
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plane_ben
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedal free play and what was said about the adjusters. If they are in wrong, they can actually cut into the brake shoe and hold the shoe farther away from the wheel cylinder and closer to the drum.

I have been victim of bad soft lines right out of the parts bin too. Don't discount them just because they are new.
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
BarryL wrote:
Make sure there is a tiny gap between the end of the brake push rod and the master cylinder piston. It has to have some gap.


Yes, it is 1mm measured underneath or 10mm measured at the pedal.


I bet a dollar that this is the cure. I have had it happen when I replaced a M/C.
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roundhouse72
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy funny...it's not THAT low!
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BarryL Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 3 brakes on 63 Panel Reply with quote

roundhouse72 wrote:
The pedal would get rock hard


It probably was just hitting on the ground and had no where to push to.

roundhouse72 wrote:
and it felt like I was pulling an extra 1000lbs!


Cuz it was rubbing on the ground.

roundhouse72 wrote:
Then it loosened up


Stopped over a sink hole?
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delx23
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us know
Happy 4th
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roundhouse72
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys, dad and I will check these things and let you know....happy 4th!
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delx23
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

did you pay attention at the adjusters screw ends ? where the shoes are locked in place basically is different from the bus and that metal piece has an angle and will only go one way to allow the shoes to rest, if you turn it the other side even with the adjuster all the way back the drum will not fit or have way to little play..
So check the angle of the adjustment screw..
good luck
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EverettB Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
Make sure there is a tiny gap between the end of the brake push rod and the master cylinder piston. It has to have some gap.


Yes, it is 1mm measured underneath or 10mm measured at the pedal.
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BarryL Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure there is a tiny gap between the end of the brake push rod and the master cylinder piston. It has to have some gap.
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joe56vw
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had brand new wheel cylinders stick most of the new stuff is cheap Chinese crap

try taking the wheel cylinders apart and check the seals and plungers to see if they are good
the last set of cheap wheel cylinder I got I had to hone out the inside because there was machining marks that the plungers were sticking on
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roundhouse72 wrote:
Every single part is brand new, hard lines, soft lines, adjusters and all. The adjusters function normally too. It has been a real fight getting the drums on and off each time though, to the point I had to replace one because of cracking from hitting it too hard.


if your rear brakes don't release, it would be hard to get the drums off.
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Erik G
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What else will cause that kind of issue, messing with the master cylinder rod, so it's not releasing just the rears? Could be I suppose, I never mess with that rod

the hoses could of course still be bad, new or not I suppose
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roundhouse72
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every single part is brand new, hard lines, soft lines, adjusters and all. The adjusters function normally too. It has been a real fight getting the drums on and off each time though, to the point I had to replace one because of cracking from hitting it too hard.
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Erik G
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

soft lines for sure. only other possibility would be the tabs for the star adjusters on the backing plate missing, and the stars rotating and adjusting themselves in and out. but I'd bet on the rubber lines
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