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sammyman
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 195
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 Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:54 pm Post subject: Why is everyone FIRM on their price? |
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Every single for sale vanagon owner I have talked to is completely FIRM on their price. Sometimes the prices are fair, and others are way high. Either way, everyone is FIRM, like we are talking pennies.
What is the deal? |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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I'm usually firm on the price because I don't want to screw around with haggling. If you want it for the price, buy it. If not, then go away without bothering to waste anyone's time.  |
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sammyman
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| I'm usually firm on the price because I don't want to screw around with haggling. If you want it for the price, buy it. If not, then go away without bothering to waste anyone's time. |
You totally proved my point. Thank you.
I've bought a lot of vehicles. And usually people are reasonable meaning, "yes you need to fix the AC so I'll give you a little break" or whatever. Not true with Vanagons.
I'm still wondering why...  |
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tam_shops
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2012
Posts: 1530
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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My guess, I've owned mine for less than 6 months and have put thousands of dollars into it already. And, nothing was actually *wrong* with it. Brakes, brake lights brighter, 3rd brake light, tail lights brighter, seat belts, stereo, speakers, fuel line kit.....
Multiple that for a few years and there is your answer. These are expensive toys and that adds up quickly.
Also, if you're only looking at good ones, there will be little break on the price. It's the ones covered in rust that no one wants that you'll get a deal on.
tam
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| When I decide on a price when selling a vehicle I factor in the current condition of ALL the components of the vehicle. IF the A/C doesn't work then that fact is ALREADY factored into the price reducing it from what it would be if the A/C worked. Buy it for the price or go away without wasting my time... Being firm on the price reduces the amount of time wasted by people who aren't going to buy the vehicle for the price I am willing to sell it for. That is WHY. How is this confusing you?? |
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yiucycle
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2007
Posts: 421
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Having cold hard cash with you when you are buying a car helps. Most seller dont want to deal with low baller but seeing the cash in front of them and if its not too far off from the asking price, they might take it.
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jackbombay
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 2723
Location: Eastern Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| sammyman wrote: |
| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| I'm usually firm on the price because I don't want to screw around with haggling. If you want it for the price, buy it. If not, then go away without bothering to waste anyone's time. |
You totally proved my point. Thank you.
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From my end of the Internet it looks like he answered your question quite well, and you're giving him attitude...
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Syncroincity
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2007
Posts: 1557
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:12 am Post subject: |
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You're applying used car logic to a classic collector's vehicle. Vanagons are no longer depreciating. I bought a '63 Deluxe bus in 1988 for $1500, if I had simply put it in a baggie in a barn, I could now sell it for $50K easily. The van was 25 years old at the time, just like my Syncro is now. Bottom of the curve, starting to climb. Blood sweat & tears invested also prop up the prices. As noted before, if you want a bargain, prepare for some major work.
Ask the owner of a Ferarri 250GTO to knock off a couple grand because of the mileage, see how far you get.
On the other hand, I sold my '88 Cabriolet cheap, and it was immaculate... but needed some work that I wasn't willing to get into, so the buyer asked for, and got a break... depends on the situation and how badly the seller wants rid of the vehicle.
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:11 am Post subject: |
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They aren't making Vanagons any longer, we have quite the cult following and many have poured dollars into keeping the vehicle driving.
Whatever the price is, that is what the seller is willing to take to sell the vehicle.
I firmly believe that anyone looking for a deal or who wants to haggle over the price should look elsewhere.
Most of the time the pricing in the Craig's List scam ads are a really good deal.
Go bother those sellers, I'm sure they will lower the price for ya, especially if you wire them the money.  |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32609
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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morymob
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007
Posts: 4683
Location: east-tn
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| Just how many of the firm ones are actually sold, don't see many sold indicators posted on the samba ones. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| morymob wrote: |
| Just how many of the firm ones are actually sold, don't see many sold indicators posted on the samba ones. |
That may be because you are not supposed to list it as sold, just remove the ad. |
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Xtremjeepn
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012
Posts: 1539
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| morymob wrote: |
| Just how many of the firm ones are actually sold, don't see many sold...... |
| djkeev wrote: |
I also think that GoWesty's vehicle pricing has inflated the values
Dave |
I don't think GoWesty has inflated "value" they have only inflated what people *think* they can get.
Its a bit unfortunate really. One guy puts up a sky high asking price and then the next guy thinks his must be worth that too. Pretty soon you have a bunch of dreamers "holding firm" on their "ask" prices.
I've been watching this for awhile now and many of these high/firm asks seem to have zero logic behind them. Vehicles in wildly different conditions with crazy inverted pricing. Several good condition vehicle that have been listed for YEARS for $x posted right along side junky vehicles listed for $xxxxxx. And none of them actually selling.
I also recently looked as a site that compiles all the SOLD data from eBay. The REAL sold averages are WAY WAY WAY WAY below what many people are asking.
Vanagons are cool, good clean ones are rare, but there is definitely a bit of a false market going on with them right now.(Fwiw, I'm an Economist that studies markets and behavioral economics/finance  ) |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2010
Posts: 297
Location: Amesbury, MA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:25 am Post subject: |
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All vanagon are not Firm prices, just the ones you are looking at..
I would put a firm price on mine.. but also it would depend on the buyer... If
someone who really loves the van , and will take car of it.. the firm price might be lower..
Jerks or someone who put me off, they pay more..
If their dog looks good in the van... well..
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Xtremjeepn
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012
Posts: 1539
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:29 am Post subject: |
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I would like to negotiate a VERY low price on your van then
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Rodknock
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 516
Location: Boulder CO
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Almost every used car I have ever bought had a "firm" price on it. I go see it in person. I find things the owner either didn't know was wrong or did not divulge in the ad. I bring up these things and note how much it costs to fix them, especially if it is a safety or smog issue. I make a reasonable offer. I either get the car or I don't, and if the seller still stays firm I usually get a call a month later that they are willing to negotiate. I have never been chased down someone's driveway for making a reasonable offer. I also think that if the car is the right color combo for you, has things that are mostly fixable yourself, and has a lot of records showing history and what was done when, I usually pay a slight premium and forget it. I have found that over time a car 20+ year old car will end up costing far more in repairs and upkeep than that little premium you paid initially. If you buy at a reasonable price you probably won't lose a ton unless something major is wrong and you missed it during inspection. I spread the non-critical repair costs over a period of time to ease the pain. I also avoid replacing the most expensive part first when trying to fix a complex problem. Go-Westy and others are retailers, and you pay the retail price with the associated profit to support the retail operation. Private sellers are a whole different thing altogether and you will see a vast difference in pricing. That's the way it works. |
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DubNuts
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2009
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:13 am Post subject: |
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I often use the Term "Vanagon Stupid" meaning either the seller is over priced trying to sell a basket case for big bucks, or an unknowing buyer thinks they can pickup a few $1000 Van that they think will only need a few bucks invested and could be used as a daily driver or a new home. Also because it's a old VW many New'bies think they are as simple as there Grandpops old Aircooled. Heck they are complicated and complex critters to the unknowing.
What I've seen is 2 type people. Those that know what they have the time money etc tied up into there Vans, and those New'bies who recently joined Samba to try to sell a overly priced Van just because they saw something similar posted at a high price. An aware buyer should and usually knows what there looking at, and will recognize a good one when they see it! When you read the ads it's easy to pick out the ones that the sellers knows little about. Simple things like calling a Skylight a Moonrooof, bad pixs, or few pixs that don't show picture the Van correctly and a van that looks rough but the seller saying it's rated as a Samba #1 or #2.
I usually sell my stuff at below going prices. Actually the prices are what's fair to me and my efforts. Never had an unhappy buyer, many of whom flew in and drove home. I'm always happy to see another Vanagon go to another Excited and Happy Family. Several have gone cross country travels and camping. It's always nice to get a postcard or pixs from those Happy Folks.
Also recently seen many buyers just seeking a soild Body Van who wanted it to build into an engine of their choice, Subie, or TD platform etc.
Currently sitting on 10+ Westys that I just can't get the time yet to resell, many built to suit Subie transplants etc.
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bowtiebug
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2013
Posts: 902
Location: North Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| I'm usually firm on the price because I don't want to screw around with haggling. If you want it for the price, buy it. If not, then go away without bothering to waste anyone's time. |
my thoughts exactly ^^ .
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Syncroincity
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2007
Posts: 1557
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:29 am Post subject: |
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The GoWesty effect is similar to the Barrett-Jackson syndrome striking the classic car market. Every schmoe with a rotted base Camaro in the shed thinks it's worth at least $30 grand.
All I'm saying is, if you see a van you like, buy it now. They're not getting any cheaper, and as above, they ain't making any more of 'em.
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akyrie
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2010
Posts: 519
Location: Driftless, Wisco
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| bowtiebug wrote: |
| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| I'm usually firm on the price because I don't want to screw around with haggling. If you want it for the price, buy it. If not, then go away without bothering to waste anyone's time. |
my thoughts exactly ^^ . |
This would be great if EVERY seller was Andrew, but they are not. I understand Andrew's point(and yours bowtiebug,) BUT they are not Andrew and the quality of workmanship is not the same, nor is the knowledge of the actual worth of the van the same, etc..
Now if I was buying a van from Andrew, Ben, or many others on here that are obviously dedicated restorers, collectors, then a reasonable firm price is acceptable to me. This all hinges on what and who is thinking what is reasonable. yada yada yada. I am not buying vans right now, but this is how I feel about "firm" prices. I am not afraid to shot up with the cash I am prepared to spend and offer it to the seller(could be drastically less than asking price), even if he might not think that my offer is reasonable. It's not an insult, it's just an offer. Some take it personally and argue with me. I am not interested in the argument, I just walk away at that point. This goes for everything i buy of clist. Its business not an insult.
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