Want to order springs for my 85 2wd tomorrow.

[WandS]

Hey guys,

I have read every spring thread i have found on thesamba concerning spring install. I have an 85 2wd in which i want just a slight lift upfront and the rear can stay the way it is. (i believe it was 18.8 or 19 when i measured a few months ago) In this picture, the rear has just short of an inch of spacers on each side.

I hear 85 are the tallest from factory. Do i need 1.5 inch lift springs or are stock springs ok? I have all new poly bushings for every item in the suspension both front and rear installed. Balljoints, etc all changed 10k miles ago. Addco front sway bar and Blistein HD also.


Thanks
I am trying to cure a couple things. At that height now, when my wife and i sit up front, the van just goes way down. (throwing off alignment and badly cupping passenger front tire)

Also, when driving behind rigs, my car just dances side to side like crazy.

And last, a huge nose dive every time i hit the brakes. (may be an issue proportioning the rear brakes and front disc upgrade i have installed)

What are the recommendations for me? I am almost 80 percent street. (i live in miami) The rest of the time when traveling i do fire roads and almost no offroading. (have 2wd and Peloquin installed but no guts to try it traveling solo and with the whole family)
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85 Westy Weekender with a Bostig Conversion.

[scottjk]

I have an 1985 Westy that I just finished installing GoWesty 1.5 2WD springs. I was surprised when I measured them against my OEM 1985 front springs. They are exactly the same height. After the installation I'm about the same height fender lip to wheel hub just as I was before. The big difference is the progressive GoWesty spring is a bit stiffer. Along with all my new PowerFlex bushings the ride is significantly more tighter and seems to drive very smooth. I have not been off road yet.

My measurements with GoWesty 2WD 1.5 Lift Springs

FL 17 1/4
FR 17 3/4
RL 17
RR 17 3/4

I'm going to add a shim to the rear left to try and balance everything out.

So in the end I'm a little surprised that I didn't get any lift from the GoWesty lift springs. If you have 1985 OEM front springs you might not either but I would imagine that new springs would help with your nose diving issues.
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1985 Westfalia 2.5L EJ

[WandS]

Thanks for taking the time to respond. w I love the current height but the springs are worn and mushy. Even with the addco sway bar, it just seems soft and unsafe.

I am going to replace the tires soon as i wasnt paying much attention when i picked the size tire and their load rating is only 97. My van travels include paddleboards on top, wife and 2 kids 12+, skateboards, bicycles etc. I think i am going with a higher load rating Nokia next. (well, after the next few trips)

Did you have to use the balljoint spacers?
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85 Westy Weekender with a Bostig Conversion.

[scottjk]

Yes...I installed the ball joint spacers.

Did you install the Addco or have it done? Take a look at your two frame bushings and see if there is any play. The 1985 brackets install at an angle unlike the 1986 and newer that install flat to the frame. The brackets need to be modified to get a tight bushing to frame fit. If you hear any knocking particularly on rough roads it might be that.
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1985 Westfalia 2.5L EJ

[levi]

On my heavy 1985 AWagen, I put in moog 5660 springs, believe they were only 50$ for the set from a local flaps, and brought the front of my van up just a little over an inch.
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One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40

[Jon_slider]

> I have an 85 2wd in which i want just a slight lift upfront and the rear can stay the way it is. (i believe it was 18.8 or 19 when i measured a few months ago) In this picture, the rear has just short of an inch of spacers on each side.

you could simply remove one spacer from the rear, and your nose will no longer be low.. or you could add a spacer to the front and your heights would be adjusted.

Springs control ride height.

> I would imagine that new springs would help with your nose diving issues.

I respectfully disagree

> the springs are worn and mushy

again, with all due respect, springs don't wear out, Shocks wear out.

My suggestion is Buy New Shocks! They should stop your nose diving issue. If not, Then spend money on stiffer springs. You still need the shocks anyway.
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[insyncro]

Springs and more importantly the spring rates need to match the valving in the shocks.

It is possible to match both brand new springs with brand new shocks and not have the desired ride you wish.

Drive other vans with different spring shock combos before buying, or be ready to keep swapping in different parts until the desired ride is achieved.

[brad131a4]

I'm with Jon and insyncro. It sounds more like a shock issue than a spring issue. Unless you are going to go with a full on race shock you won't have any issues over valving the shocks. Now you can get very stiff springs that will over power a softly valved shock. The problem with this is one system is fine for one person which isn't for another.
Like insyncro said find some other vanagon owners and go for a ride and see what combo they use that best suits what you want.

[WandS]

When I put in the blistein HD shocks new, I had new same nose dive issue. Before I added the spacers in the rear, the van sagged empty. ( is the not a worn spring issue?)

So, my blisteins were a waste of money? At those time 3 years ago it seemed like they were the go to shock. Van has ridden the same from then until now. I don't do any real offloading,

I don't mind dropping the money for Koni shocks, but I am not sure they are going to work with my van that normally sits high. also, there were shock extensions supposedly coming out and new sway bars but neither has happened yet.


Now, we sit in the van, front rides way low. Shock won't fix this. So if I take out spacers from the rear, the front might come up but when loaded I will have a rear sag again,

I do have air lift bags to help the rear from sagging when loaded. Maybe they are holdings to rear up too high.




In south Florida, I have seen 4 westfalia vans in the last years. All of a them were bone stock and beat up. I don't think I am going to find someone who is going for the lifted 2WD stance that I am. As a matter of fact, the last 3 vw shows only produced 2 vanagon hard tops.
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85 Westy Weekender with a Bostig Conversion.

[WandS]

How would a set of these springs go with some Koni Adjustables?

http://www.syncro.org/schwenksprings/vanagon_springs.html

Are these less of a raise than the GW ones? My concern comes again from having an 85. Another member on this thread stated to ride height difference so i am concerned about the van going lower.
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85 Westy Weekender with a Bostig Conversion.

[tschroeder0]

Well, with all due respect here, springs do get old and worn like everything else, and after not replacing my springs and trying bilstien, koni's Etc.. over the last 14 yrs I can tell you if you want the front dive isuue cleared up replace your springs. On my 85 I went with the GW zero lift, much, much les diving than my old stock springs.
Again, this was not solved with any new shocks.

[Jon_slider]

> On my 85 I went with the GW zero lift, much, much les diving than my old stock springs.
Again, this was not solved with any new shocks.

I stand corrected, thanks for your first hand report.

Maybe share your ride heights with the OP, so she can figure out if she should get the +1.5

Also, to the OP, try asking GoWesty which spring and shocks they recommend for your particular needs.

You should also verify that your rear brakes are properly adjusted, and it does sound like your airbag might be making your rear too stiff. If the rear springs are stiffer than the front, and the rear brakes are not doing much work, and your front seats are loaded more heavily than mine, I can see how your nose diving experience may be worse than mine. So a stiffer spring may be just the ticket.

Be prepared to tell them your corner heights, and the weight of the driver and passenger.

one last attempt to save you money:
you could shim your front springs. This not only lifts the front, like you seem to want, it also makes the spring rate stiffer, slightly. It may be all you need.

I hope you find a spring and shock combo that makes you happy, and share your results.

To your question of whether .org springs are stiffer, or provide more ride height, I dont know. Neither company shares their spring rate info, you would need to find someone that has used both types.

I tried both types, but on a Syncro. The GW springs gave more lift in my case. GW springs are not necessarily longer, they only need to be thicker, to be stiffer and in that way can produce more lift. My guess is you will be better served with GW springs than .org, but my experience is syncro specific.

fwiw, my 85 2wd westy with stock springs sits at 17.5" at all 4 corners. My driver rear has 1" of shims. I have Bilstein shocks and my van does not dive the nose, but I dont carry a passenger. I weight 170lbs
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[Christopher Schimke]

[WandS]

Just went out and measured. My van sits at about 17.5 all the way around except for drivers rear which is at 17. It is sitting on a slight decline so i think that its off my just a little bit. I do not need more height, but i do not want to go any lower due to tire size and Bostig conversion. Running general grabber 215/65/16

Might just order the 1.5 springs and see if that helps these soft blisteins out at all. When the extenders for the adjustable Koni come out, i will swap the shocks also. Seems everyone loves the Konis. Also going to let out the air lift psi and load the vehicle in a week for our trip. Then i will add air to get me even with whatever the front is at. I know my tires arent helping either.

I will order the Nokian WRC next year before by trip to Yellowstone.
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85 Westy Weekender with a Bostig Conversion.

[j_dirge]

WandS.

If its me?..
I'd take this one step at a time.

I'd start with those new tires.. and play with tire pressure and the pressure in those airlifts.

Go from there.

I have talked to too many people who have sprung for springs only to be a bit perplexed as to why they did not solve a given problem.. and in some cases the "new" springs made things worse. Or just "different" perhaps.

Springs aren't cheap.. and installing them is not a breeze. Unless you REALLY like taking things apart and reassembling a few times.... save it for later.

If you need tires.. get tires.. then drive and sleep on it a bit.
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-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[vwmaniaman]

My 86 Westy bottomed the front just turning into driveway curbs. Previous owners were short and had the springs altered. I got some 84 springs from a vendor here and the ride is much better. Already had replaced the shocks. Have air shock kit on the back for whenever we tow our small trailer. Previously owned an 83,84 and 85 and 84 rode the best to us so that's what we went with.

[tschroeder0]

Well I guess we can mintz words anyway we choose, but if my old springs no longer can respond int the way they did when they were new, to me that qualifies as,"worn" and that being in a way that will not be made up for with shocks.

So I gues that is my definition, if you cant make stop the over compression or pogoing with various new shocks then, your springs are too worn, it seems wrong to me to imply that you would never need to change out your 20 yo springs because they dont wear out(?)

[WandS]

j_dirge

The tires i have on there now have about 20k. Plenty of tread left besides front passenger, but i have a new spare in the clamshell.


All hard decisions because money is tight. I do realize with soft side walls and not knowing correct pressures for each corner, i can only get so far. I feel almost certain that even a stiffer side wall wont correct the nose dive. It should though help with that bouncy feeling and the side to side swaying present when driving.

I just received some 6mm spacers from T3 i have to instal in there also.

Thanks for all the input so far. Keep the recommendations coming.
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85 Westy Weekender with a Bostig Conversion.

[Christopher Schimke]

[j_dirge]

WandS,
I hear you on the money thing... gotta choose wisely.
It is very difficult to know when others impressions of their own setups will give you adequate base info to make your own decisions.

I am fairly content with my Bilstein HDs.. They are paired with Schwenk springs (for a modest lift on 2WD, previous generation). And that's also with relatively heavy rubber and wheels compared to most rigs. I've driven Koni's side-by-side to the HDs.. and I just don't sense the vast improvement that others do. That said "adjustability" is a key. And for that alone they may be worth the money to you.

If the HDs are in good shape, they likely are performing adequately as far as shocks are concerned paired with the VW springs.. HDs are not junk... and personally I'd be looking at other components for bigger-step improvement on your driveability.

If shocks are what you choose to work on next.. I suggest you at least look at the Rancho 9000 adjustables as an option to compare with Koni. They are on my list.. and I think there is one thread on here where someone has fit them to the fronts. (the rears should be an easy fitment)


Chris's comments should be studied and taken to heart. Rear brakes? Proportioning valve? PSI in the Airlifts?.. etc..

When I had Airlifts, I dropped nearly all the air out when I was unloaded. I found they did not allow the rear springs to work as they should.. and I have been much happier with air adjust shocks for load assist and leveling in the rear over the air lifts.
In hindsight, the air lifts were simply no match for a rear sway bar and rear load assist air shocks. (my current setup in the rear)


You noted you are ordering new tires ANYway.. before a trip to Yellowstone? Maybe bite the bullet and do that earlier than later to knock off one key component towards better driveabilty. I would imagine it would be REALLY difficult to asses shock and spring performance in a Vanagon if the van sits on soft tires.

These are simply my personal opinions based on my singular van.. Others have way more tech behind their opinions. So take this for what its worth. Keep my comments in perspective.

Edited to add:
Samba member: Shadetreetim
Rancho adjustables.. Page 11, bottom.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=467400&highlight=rancho

Maybe invite him to chime in here on his choice?
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5