Rear drum stuck on spindle...what to do now??

carcrazed

After fighting for a couple of days to get the rear axle nuts off my 61 ...SUCCESS. My passengers drum pulled right off the splines with no problem, but the drivers side is STUCK and STUCK GOOD. I put the tire back on and beat on the back of the tire with a sledge and nothing. I next turned the drum in small steps and pounded on the back of the drum corners with a small sledge and crow bar....no dice that way either. I broke out the 3 fork gear puller and thought that it would have to come off. I torqued it down to 175 ft/lbs and it didn't even move!! left the pressure on it with the gear puller and tapped on it and still nothing. I have soaked this thing for 2 days with PB Blaster. My last resort I can think of is adding a little heat, but I don't want to ruin any axle seals etc. Just a note that the brake drums haven't been removed in AT LEAST 40 years since this car has sat that long. The wheels turn no problem so I know that the brake shoes aren't seized on the brake drum. Any other suggestions?? Thanks!
_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

mrbigmax · Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:34 pm Post subject:

You don't want to use heat because you don't want to "ruin" your axle seals that have been on longer than the brake drum??? What makes you think that the axle seals are still good??? You can't even take it apart to inspect the seals. I know I wouldn't trust 40 year old axle seals. Break out the torch and heat those drums up.

drs1023 · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:21 am Post subject:

I'm not a fan of heating things like this. I prefer to use an air chisel and just break them off. Like "max" said, everything is 40+ years old, so the possibility that any part is usable is slim.

drscope · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:22 am Post subject:

Forget heat, but not because of cooking the axle seals. The brake drum is a device designed to turn friction into heat. It then needs to dissipate that heat quickly and in great numbers. So the issue is that you couldn't generate enough heat with a torch to really do any good.

But the first question I have is Did you back off the brake shoe adjusters? If not and you have a ridge on the friction surface of the inside of the drum, you will never get them off!

Since you can turn the drum, spin it until you can get to the adjusting stars and then back the shoes off.

Beating on your tires/wheels with a sledge trying to remove the drum is a good way to bend wide 5's!

Most things should come apart easily when working on these cars. If you need to break out the big hammer, you need to stop and come here and ask questions FIRST!

Also having the proper tools will really help.

The Torque Buddy would have allowed you to remove those axle nuts in a couple of SECONDS with the use of a 3/8 drive Chinese ratchet! That’s no exaggeration! And you should really put on of those tools on your wish list! If you have a VW, you NEED the torque tool!
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

carcrazed · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:31 am Post subject:

Thanks for the replies. The shoes are backed off. I do have a torque tool on my "wish list", but don't have the expendable cash right now to buy the $80 tool. I will keep plugging away at it.
_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

scottvw · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:00 am Post subject:

The PB Blaster will work. Keep hitting the drum with a hammer where the splines are. That will help the Blaster seep in there. Good luck.

Harleyelf · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:06 am Post subject:

Get a really big gear puller. Rent one if you can't buy even a cheap Chinese one.

Jürgen · Samba Member Joined: September 28, 2009 Posts: 100

I second the strategy of PB Blaster + a better gear puller. All that banging and torching is a good way to cause permanent damage.

Harleyelf · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:05 am Post subject:

If not to the drum or axle, to the bolts that eventually hold that whole corner of the car to the frame. No hammer blow is without repercussions.

Gear pullers are cheap. Drums and rotors are surprisingly available, too.

VOLKSWAGNUT · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:27 am Post subject:

Get creative...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=390674

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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carcrazed · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:31 am Post subject:

nice set up! I have been using a 3 fork gear puller and it still won't budge. I actually left the gear puller with pressure on it and hit it with pb blaster every time I walk out to the garage "hoping" it will be popped off one day when I look. looks like I might be trying the extra drum, chain and bottle jack idea.
_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

Jürgen · Samba Member Joined: September 28, 2009 Posts: 100

carcrazed · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:53 pm Post subject:

I am losing hope with this one. I might have to cut this drum off and replace the shaft too. Here are a couple of pics.

_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

Aussielow · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:45 pm Post subject:

How about putting the nut back on loose and the wheel too and drive it back and forward ( in the driveway of course ) The load and movement may just work the rust out of the splines........ if you are lucky Smile

carcrazed · Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:03 am Post subject:

I wish I could, but this car is apart with no engine. I think I am gonna split the drum with a grind wheel, unbolt the axle and remove the entire assembly and start from scratch. From the looks of the splines, even if I got the drum off I am assuming the shaft splines are ruined too.
_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

Culito · Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:16 am Post subject:

kirkpwomack · Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:31 am Post subject:

with that puller on there real tight, put some heat on the drum next to the splines. Make sure the puller is TIGHT! Once you heat it up really good, smack the puller with a hammer. That should do it. Don't worry about your seals being ruined inside, you should be replacing those anyways...

carcrazed · Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:30 pm Post subject:

well, I have that puller tightened down to about 250 ft lbs. and am leaving it like that while I soak PB blaster on the end and am spraying it into the slinger "hoping" to get it into the inside of the shaft. I have also been smacking it with a baby sledge. Hasn't moved yet. I will keep doing that off an on for a week or so and then the torch comes out. How frustrating!!!
_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

61SNRF · Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:47 pm Post subject:

At least half the alleged 250 ft lbs torque you have applied to that gear puller is being wasted by deflection. It's arms are too long and the lip of the drum (most likely warped by now) is too far from the hub's (the part that is stuck) center. To get a severely rusted drum off a heavily corroded axle like this "cold" you would be best advised to use a dedicated Brake Drum puller with legs or supports that pull much closer to the center of the hub itself.

This is when the right tool for the job comes in handy and makes life much easier Laughing

...

As aka Ken say's, you might have to get creative. Here are some other solutions creative Sambaista's have used...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw//forum/album_search.php...ts=summary
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

oldvolkz · Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject:

heat heat heat... cut cut cut
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Rear drum stuck on spindle...what to do now??
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