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dkoesyncro
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006
Posts: 983
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 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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How sensitive are these? Can engine bay temps set these off? My exhaust manifold gets pretty warm, I'm going to build some shielding but the concern still present!
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16504
Location: Brookeville, MD
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maco70
Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2011
Posts: 456
Location: Montréal, Québec
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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Thanks for the photos of the installation on the perimiter.
I believe that some of us have concern about the temperature on several points under the engine lid, since the system can melt and start even at the idle, when it is very warm outside.
Then, trying to find a way to avoid it and then installing the system on the lowest temperature points, I dont know if the temperature is that lower on the perimiter, or even faraway of the engine, around the limits of the engine compartment ?
I am thinking to buy a thermometer to monitor the engine temperature on several points in the engine compartement, before installing the Blazecut.
(but for now the vanagon is in storage until next month)
_________________
Martin from Montréal
1986 Vanagon GL full camper westfalia
(brown/tan interior) |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Are the reports of unintended deployment documented or otherwise? I don't recall them being posted |
Me neither, though I didn't re-read all 15 pp.
248°F is stinking hot - I would think a stock engine is very unlikely to set this thing off.
I have driven about 4 years with it in mine including may 100°+ days w/o an issue. |
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DehlerPEB
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2010
Posts: 111
Location: Germany, Augsburg
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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Note 2 myself:
* install a Raspberry-Pi + 3-5 TempSensors in the engine compartment + the lid as soon as daugther is back from current trip to Lake Garda on Sunday
damned, again another topic on the todo-list ....
I'll share the findings as soon as I have enough data
peb
T3svx ... sonst nix! |
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nevadaesh
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Joined: May 08, 2013
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| nevadaesh wrote: |
I installed the BlazeCut less than a month ago. We were waiting at the Canadian border in 97^ temps for at lest 20-30 minutes. Was pulled over to check for some fruit and vegys and right after the border person left us the BlazeCut let loose. A very large report and within seconds two border enforcement guys were on each side of the Westy with hands on their weapons. I quickly explained what happened and all was well - with them. So had to unload everything from over the engine, pulled off the cover and found no residue from the system. It did kill the engine, but after putting everything back in, it started right up, but not with out a pulsating idle. In gear, no pulsating.
So they do blow just sitting in hot weather not going anywhere. BlazeCut should have an over 200^ system, not the 165 they have.
I have to say that someone a 1/4 mile away probably heard it. Very, very loud. I'm out $150 so don't know if I'll replace it. I have all new fuel lines so am thinking about it. |
I do say they do exhibit "unintended deployment" under the right conditions. I was ordered by the border patrol to NOT turn off my engine while I was waiting in line or I would have. I think the forced idling was the reason for it exploding.
I have not replaced the system but not for the reason that I think it would explode again because I would never let it idle like that again.
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'85 Westy
'07 FJC
'02 Camry |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16504
Location: Brookeville, MD
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maco70
Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2011
Posts: 456
Location: Montréal, Québec
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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| Quote: |
I do say they do exhibit "unintended deployment" under the right conditions. I was ordered by the border patrol to NOT turn off my engine while I was waiting in line or I would have. I think the forced idling was the reason for it exploding.
I have not replaced the system but not for the reason that I think it would explode again because I would never let it idle like that again. |
I believe that others situations may occur where the idle is held for a certain time, including when in a traffic jam, by warm wheater.
That's my concern.
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Martin from Montréal
1986 Vanagon GL full camper westfalia
(brown/tan interior) |
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GWTWTLW
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Joined: April 22, 2008
Posts: 2174
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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I feel like I put it through some serious heat last summer without any issues. We did stop and go construction traffic in Utah with the temps above 100. Also some high passes wound up in 2nd gear with the rad fan on high. I feel pretty confident that it isn't going to rupture without a fire.
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89 Syncro Westy - GW 2.5, now with a double knob job
@gwtwtlw |
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maco70
Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2011
Posts: 456
Location: Montréal, Québec
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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It makes me feel confident too, then.
Thanks.
_________________
Martin from Montréal
1986 Vanagon GL full camper westfalia
(brown/tan interior) |
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apensity
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2014
Posts: 208
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| LandSailor wrote: |
The tube is filled with liquid, not gas. The boiling point of that liquid is 29°F, so it's going to expand extremely quickly. There's half a Kg of it in the tube that's going to spray out at the hottest spot (where the tube ruptured), cooling it violently, and displacing the oxygen to disrupt two parts of the fire triangle (oxidizer and temperature).
Now, I don't claim to know how these numbers fit together, but a cubic meter of the liquid weighs 1360KG at 77°F (That's literally two pounds short of weighing a TON.) The same volume in vapor form weighs 6.4KG.
In non-metric units, it's 85 pounds per cubic foot and .4 pounds for the vapor form. The phase transition is going to suck up a massive amount of heat and expand quicker than it can be sucked out of the compartment, IMHO.
I admit. I am totally armchair quarterbacking this, but at least I've looked at the data and somewhat understand what's happening.
The whiny users at that other forum are just showing their third grade gossiping school girls selves if they are dismissing this because of their stated "claims".
"What guarantee do I get?" NONE, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM.
"I can make that! It's $40 worth of parts!" Yeah, go ahead and show us how, dude. Put up or shut up. (I guarantee that person has never worked in manufacturing of ANY sort.)
"HYDROFLUORIC ACID!!!! OMIGERRRRD" Shut up.
In short, this is $200 that I feel could possibly save your van if you have an engine compartment fire.
If you want actual "insurance" against a loss, then you'd better buy a literal "insurance policy". Period.
http://www2.dupont.com/FE/en_US/products/fe36.html#.UpJvZMre42V has links to the data sheets and stuff if y'all want to do some math and physics calcs. One of its intended uses is specifically engine compartment fires. |
Sorry, I had to dig this up from ancient times, but this is the best response ever in the history of the internet!
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1974 Standard Beetle, 1835cc with A/C... pure fun |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| apensity wrote: |
| ...Sorry, I had to dig this up from ancient times, but this is the best response ever in the history of the internet! |
Only if you allow yourself to be duped into believing in science. |
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rubbachicken
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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has one of these done the job it was designed for, i know they will stop a fire on an aircooled engine, with a mechanical fuel pump pushing 3 maybe 4 psi,, which stops as soon as the engine does, i'm still waiting to hear of one working on a vanagon, not knocking the product, we have 4 vanagons, so 4 of these things is BIG $'s
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lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
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RainierSyncro
Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2013
Posts: 809
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:06 am Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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| Even if it doesn't put out the fire completely, at least you have an idea that something very wrong is going on back there. I think it pops like a gun shot. It will give you a little time to do something about it rather than letting it rage out of control. |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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| rubbachicken wrote: |
| ...i know they will stop a fire on an aircooled engine, with a mechanical fuel pump pushing 3 maybe 4 psi,, which stops as soon as the engine does,.. |
It does come with a solenoid valve that is normally closed and can be wired to only be open when receiving power. With some creative wiring it can be made to shut off the fuel flow in the event of fire
I really should do this. |
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Syncro Jael
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013
Posts: 2204
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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I have had one mounted for a couple years. In the summer heat, pushing long grades, A/C on, I have seen the engine oil temp near 230°f. The engine compartment has an EJ22 in it with RMW exhaust.
No issues, and a great peace of mind knowing something is going to start fighting a fire before I can get the extinguishers back there to help. Having the plastic fuel tank sitting next to the engine, Syncro, there is a big potential for a quick LARGE fire. 
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
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grambo
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Old Hangtown, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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I just installed one based on the reviews and reasoning of folks on this thread. I installed a 9 foot one on the deck lid by fastening the unit onto the chicken wire frame in the foam with the supplied zip ties. The gauge is situated so that you can see it from the license plate pull down for a pre-trip check, and when you check oil, coolant, etc.
I also took some photos of the certifications listed on the packaging, since that was a concern raised earlier in this thread, for all who are interested:
I'm hoping this will never be deployed, and if it is, that it does it's job.
I'm reminded of a close call with fire when a couple at a neighboring camp was running a small Honda-type generator on the back of their truck tail gate at Burning Man. That's fine, but the couple had apparently placed the gallon size plastic fuel container at the ass end of the generator (by the exhaust) within their camper shell. We heard a very loud boom from 100 feet away, and ran to check it out. No flames, just the stench of fuel, a soaked truck bed/camper shell, and a mangled plastic fuel container on the ground. We figured the explosion was caused by rising pressure in the fuel container and it's a miracle there was no fireball. The resulting "explosion" likely displaced a lot of oxygen, so much that it automatically shut down the generator as well. The couple returned and we told them what happened, and the woman said "That's some hillbilly shit!"  |
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dogboy
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 19
Location: colo springs
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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im really glad i decided to do a tdi install years ago,, i can just pour diesel on any fire to put it out 
now my old thing is a different story..
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89 synctro tdi, 74 thing, 05 tdi jetta wgn, 86syncro, 65bug, 78scirocco...
Ignorance is far worst than lack of knowledge. |
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timichango
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2012
Posts: 858
Location: Squamish, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| nevadaesh wrote: |
| nevadaesh wrote: |
I installed the BlazeCut less than a month ago. We were waiting at the Canadian border in 97^ temps for at lest 20-30 minutes. Was pulled over to check for some fruit and vegys and right after the border person left us the BlazeCut let loose. A very large report and within seconds two border enforcement guys were on each side of the Westy with hands on their weapons. I quickly explained what happened and all was well - with them. So had to unload everything from over the engine, pulled off the cover and found no residue from the system. It did kill the engine, but after putting everything back in, it started right up, but not with out a pulsating idle. In gear, no pulsating.
So they do blow just sitting in hot weather not going anywhere. BlazeCut should have an over 200^ system, not the 165 they have.
I have to say that someone a 1/4 mile away probably heard it. Very, very loud. I'm out $150 so don't know if I'll replace it. I have all new fuel lines so am thinking about it. |
I do say they do exhibit "unintended deployment" under the right conditions. I was ordered by the border patrol to NOT turn off my engine while I was waiting in line or I would have. I think the forced idling was the reason for it exploding.
I have not replaced the system but not for the reason that I think it would explode again because I would never let it idle like that again. |
This is useful info for me... I've been eyeballing those things...
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Vroomhilde-San: Our 1991 Silver Vanagon Westy automatic + Subie EJ25 |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6832
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Blazecut Fire Supression System |
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| rubbachicken wrote: |
| has one of these done the job it was designed for, i know they will stop a fire on an aircooled engine, with a mechanical fuel pump pushing 3 maybe 4 psi,, which stops as soon as the engine does, i'm still waiting to hear of one working on a vanagon, not knocking the product, we have 4 vanagons, so 4 of these things is BIG $'s |
The air cooled engine is in a sealed compartment. It is not airtight as air comes in the air inlet vents.
By sealed I mean the top side of the engine has the shrouds over it to prevent the hot air off the exhaust & bottom side of the engine from coming up into the cooling fan.
The WBX engine compartment is wide open-you can see the ground when you open the engine cover.
So my thinking is that when you see the video on the website you see it put out a fire in a small enclosed area of the aircooled engine compartment.
They do not have a video of it working in the open WBX engine compartment...
So place your bets on it working is all I can say on that.
Will I take mine out and throw it away based on that thinking?
Nope, I'll keep it in there in the hope that it will do something even if it is just to give me a few more seconds to get the fire extinguisher in through the license plate hatch or the driver side air inlet.
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