Want to learn to rebuild trans...

[bibliomane74]

OK, from searching through the forum it seems this is like crossing the rubicon or something. But I want to try and rebuild my transmission. I realize there are special tools needed. However, I found a reasonable press at harbor freight for $120 and the jigs are available from Long Enterprises...

I think it would be a good learning experience... And then I would have knowledge I don't yet have. It appears that some folks have been able to do it. And reading the Bentley makes it appear relatively complicated but doable... Though I do need to get a hold of some measuring micrometers too.

Now I just have to find out where to get the closer ratio gears and what-not to do it myself.
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1969 Bug

[61SNRF]

Here are a few things for you to consider...

The unit is a "transaxle", therefore you will be rebuilding both a transmission and a differential. They are both interconnected in this case but still have different functions and adjustments.

I don't think anyone uses the methods outlined in the Bentley to the letter, mainly because no one has all the special factory tools. This is where prior experience is helpful, you need to know the basics in order to work around all the precision measurements and just do it by feel. Some of those measurements involve bearing pre-load which if incorrect can lead to bearing failure. Others deal with gear mesh/position and if wrong can lead to popping out of gear or excessive differential noise.

You can't simply go and buy all the parts and shims needed either, most rebuilders use a selection of old/used ones from core transmissions. You may have to tear down several to get all the parts you need. Those parts also need to be checked for compatibility too, as many were updated or superseded as the years went on, and some will work together but some not. Some parts are also matched sets, such as the operating sleeves and hubs, 3rd and 4th gears sets etc.

Once you get it all apart and clean everything up for inspection, you need to know where and what to look for on the gears and parts for excessive wear to determine if that part is still useable or not. Again this comes down to prior experience because there are no books to tell or show you how.

Once you accumulate all the tools to do the job, you may have more invested than an exchange unit will cost, so unless you plan on doing several to sell, you may never see a pay back on them.

I hope this is not too discouraging, but if you are still wanting to try it, be prepared to do it all over again if something doesn't go right.
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-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[jfats808]

Im under 500$ for all my tools , videos, and two jigs. You can buy the rebuilders course discs from longenterprises. I have done 3 to date and working on a fourth. The hardest part is figuring out interchangeable part compatibility between one set to another. Used and new parts can also be purchased from Geno on this site and rich robertson at action auto racing gearboxes. Those are pretty much my two sources for parts. Your housing may need to be rebushed. Its not impossible, but it can get challenging. You will need to have access to a press.
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2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125

[bibliomane74]

I think I'm going to go for it... After all, I think I was considering getting another trans anyway, and I can use this process to learn a bit. Maybe will be able to rebuild a decent one myself. Using a combo of the Haynes, Bentley and if I pick up the Long Ent CDs - I may be in good shape. Heck, maybe I can learn enough to pass it along to my son someday... If not - it's kept me off the streets for a little while.
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1969 Bug

[bibliomane74]

That being said though - the Long course details the swing-axle specifically. But I assume that, while there are differences, it would still be helpful to learn the process from them.
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1969 Bug

[clonebug]

I just had my swing axle trans rebuilt for $350.00 and that included parts.

Replaced main bearing, reverse gear and idler, syncros and welded 3rd and 4th gear hubs.

You can't really mess with too much for that price.
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[[email protected]]

[mcmscott]

If you were closer I would tell you to come over and learn, I've built over 1000 t-1 boxes alone. And after that many they come easy.
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There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,

68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250

[bibliomane74]

If I were closer I would totally take you up on that offer. There'd be no better way to learn than to do it side-by-side with someone.

So, I'm gonna struggle through learning, so that I can be that someone some day. For my son, or anyone else that could use the knowledge.
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1969 Bug

[mcmscott]

Said it before, I am more than willing to walk someone thru a basic rebuild, just there is no interest, general consenses is "just buy from rancho" or whoever else advertises the most.
Please note that was not made as a jab to rancho in any way, they do exelent work.
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There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,

68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250

[scrivyscriv]

Just an aside on the mention of the $120 HF press, it's crap, if I'm thinking of the one you're talking about. Not even worth it with a 25% off coupon. I got one on sale, halfway tried to use it, and gave up and let a shop do it for me. Took the press back the next day.

It has too much slop - you can't get a precise downward press because the head moves around so much.
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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[bibliomane74]

Well, I'm in to learn a basic rebuild. I feel like I want to find a way to learn some skills to pass down. Even if I break something in the process and then have to buy - there's only one way to learn.
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1969 Bug

[mxracer]

[mcmscott]

I have built many trans with the owners here, helps them understand whats going on in it.
Funny thing is when they understand how it works they have less failures
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There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,

68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250

[hill]

The Harbor Freight presses are a good deal. Get the 20 ton version as it's stronger than the 12 ton and comes with a (duh) 20 ton hydraulic jack.

Thing is though that you need to be able to weld. The bolts included won't keep either press stiff enough but if you can weld the uprights to the cross pieces, add fore and aft struts from the feet to the uprights, add support pieces around the jack, weld the socket the jack lift fits into, and use your head to solve problems as they come up, you can make yourself a handy tool for a song. I doubt anyone at HF would recognize my press anymore...

Or go for their big boy - the fifty ton cabled version that allows a lot more flexibility for positioning things to be pressed.

Having that 20 ton job in my place has saved me probably ten times it's cost over the years. It just takes some ingenuity to make it work for you.
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'78 Biegephalia

[[email protected]]

This is the press that I've used.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=890-0830&PMPXNO=3368226&PARTPG=INLMK32

Sometimes you can catch ENCO when they have a 10, or 20% off deal along with free shipping, and it can be had for around $340-$380.

[bibliomane74]

Hill,

Anyway you can post some pix of the press and how you've customized it? I'd love a little guidance on that.
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1969 Bug

[mcmscott]

I have the 20 ton version, other than welding it together and replacing the press plates it has been great. The thing is probably 20 years old

Probably not the best pic
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There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,

68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250

[nsracing]

It is good you have the urge to learn all this stuff. But my advice to you is make sure it is what you really want. It is not as simple as swapping parts.

It is nice if you have other machines to support the transmission builds. A lot of times the gear ends will rub and eat the hub and these parts need to be trimmed and trued. The gears are hard so it is preferable to have a grinder to clean them up. A flywheel grinder or surface grinder or toolpost grinder will do the trick. The hubs are soft so you can cut that on the lathe easy.

Also, these transmissions are worn most of them. So you need to have a way to rebush the gear carrier. More lathe work and milling machine work. And sometimes, the nose bearing gets loose and you need to rebush that too.

Besides all the other tools you need from the factory and gauges. Swing axles take the most tools. And when you get into swapping Ring/Pinions to different cases most definitely you need even more tools.

Not to mention the press. Well seeing that you are in NJ/NY area should be machinetools everywhere. Long Island is like my own machinetool shopping mall. So many machines everywhere. All it takes is money.

Hope this helps.

[mark tucker]

and some guys like swaping trans & testing and ....some dont.