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shiningstar76
Samba Brewer
Joined: July 12, 2003
Posts: 2689
Location: Savannah
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 Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: Pressing in ball joints-Busted two collars |
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I bought VW 459, and got them out just fine. But I broke one ball joint collar installing the first, then added a lot of heat and went easy on the second, and ruined that one too. How are these pressed in without destroying the ball joint collar?????
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KK4NTP
96 Tacoma
86 4Runner
My bus caught on fire and is now on the other coast with someone who gave me money for it. |
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Usually pressing them in is no problem. I assume you cleaned up the insides of the trailing arms and made sure there were no burrs, etc. Are you trying to press in oversize balljoints where they aren't needed? |
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shiningstar76
Samba Brewer
Joined: July 12, 2003
Posts: 2689
Location: Savannah
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Don't assume anything. I did not clean them.  Ten years here and still learning.
They are Lemforder in the box, 211 405 371A. I don't believe they are oversize.
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KK4NTP
96 Tacoma
86 4Runner
My bus caught on fire and is now on the other coast with someone who gave me money for it. |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4539
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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you don't just clean them...
get in there with just the right size wire wheel and go to town.
clean out all the rust & junk until you see CLEAN metal all the way around.
since you didn't clean up the torsion arms i could guess that you also didn't grease the new joints when pressing them in.
sometimes it's the simple tasks that can be unexpectedly complicated.
we've all been there 
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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shiningstar76
Samba Brewer
Joined: July 12, 2003
Posts: 2689
Location: Savannah
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| borninabus wrote: |
you don't just clean them...
get in there with just the right size wire wheel and go to town.
clean out all the rust & junk until you see CLEAN metal all the way around.
since you didn't clean up the torsion arms i could guess that you also didn't grease the new joints when pressing them in.
sometimes it's the simple tasks that can be unexpectedly complicated.
we've all been there |
Cheers and thanks so much. Maybe we can stop the bleeding at $50. I'm about $500 into this job with the press, joints, and tool. Sounds crazy, but I rehab a bus or two now and then for extra money and the tools will get reused. Hopefully I won't have to buy 4 more joints. 
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KK4NTP
96 Tacoma
86 4Runner
My bus caught on fire and is now on the other coast with someone who gave me money for it. |
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germansupplyscott
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7094
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:11 am Post subject: |
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that's odd, i have pressed lots of bus ball joints and never seen the collar break due to the joint being too tight in the arm. i damaged a collar once when the support piece below the arm was off centre and in trying to get the joint all the way home it just pushed against my bottom support ring instead and the collar started to break away from the body of the joint. have you got a ring supporting the arm at the bottom? you need clearance under the arm when pressing.
i use a fine flap wheel in a die grinder to clean up the arm hole but you don't want to go to far, the joint needs to be tight in the arm. have you measured the arm holes and the joints?
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SL |
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shiningstar76
Samba Brewer
Joined: July 12, 2003
Posts: 2689
Location: Savannah
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| germansupplyscott wrote: |
that's odd, i have pressed lots of bus ball joints and never seen the collar break due to the joint being too tight in the arm. i damaged a collar once when the support piece below the arm was off centre and in trying to get the joint all the way home it just pushed against my bottom support ring instead and the collar started to break away from the body of the joint. have you got a ring supporting the arm at the bottom? you need clearance under the arm when pressing.
i use a fine flap wheel in a die grinder to clean up the arm hole but you don't want to go to far, the joint needs to be tight in the arm. have you measured the arm holes and the joints? |
That's what happened. I bottomed it out. Thanks Scott.
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KK4NTP
96 Tacoma
86 4Runner
My bus caught on fire and is now on the other coast with someone who gave me money for it. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16886
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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where did you find the tool? i have been looking for quite a long time to buy one myself
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4539
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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OTC 7249 & VW 459 1/2 are what I use.
Got the press kit from a tool truck & the adapters from www.tools.vw.com.
Pics in my gallery.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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shiningstar76
Samba Brewer
Joined: July 12, 2003
Posts: 2689
Location: Savannah
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| where did you find the tool? i have been looking for quite a long time to buy one myself |
http://vw.snapon.com/specialtoolsdetail.aspx?itemid=2800007
It's sweet. Stamped VW. I don't know if it's an original tool or made for snap-on. But it doesn't say snap-on on it.
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KK4NTP
96 Tacoma
86 4Runner
My bus caught on fire and is now on the other coast with someone who gave me money for it. |
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1975 Kombi
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2007
Posts: 2452
Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Ok well I got my vw459/1/2 today and they worked awesome but I also need vw471 which is the peening tool. http://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?type=Tools&ItemId=11190008 I did however notice that one of my ball joints was not peened on the bottom when removing it and it pushed out easier then the peened ones and might have been replaced at some point and that the shaft of the ball joint was too high and higher then the VW tool and I needed to add a metal washer at the top on each side under the metal plate I was using to push the . The removal was a piece of cake but installing them and supporting the bottom by a metal plate on both sides is not easy. One of my support bars moved slightly inward and slightly flattened the metal bottom ridge. I also tried to install a grease nipple and I don't recommend it on flat bottom ball joints. There is only 1mm of material and then the ball is tight to the cup so there is no room.
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Brett
“He’s decieving you boy! Reach into his pocket and take what he’s got.” Mr. Crabbs.
75 Westy auto
03 Jetta TDI
71 SB
74 Westy
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
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Rust In Pieces: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v
Last edited by 1975 Kombi on Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tootype2crazy
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 1276
Location: St. Louis Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| borninabus wrote: |
OTC 7249 & VW 459 1/2 are what I use.
Got the press kit from a tool truck & the adapters from www.tools.vw.com.
Pics in my gallery. |
Does the 7249 work well with bus ball joints borninabus? Our shop has one of these for VW cars (bugs, Karmann Ghias, etc) and it works well, but we always thought that the bus ones were so much more heavy duty that the torsion arms had to be pulled out and it had to be done in a hydraulic press. If that c-press works then that would speed things up significantly.
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air-cooled or nothing for me
1978 Sunroof Deluxe Bus (daily driver)
1978 Transporter (mom's, making into a camper)
1970 Single Cab 2.1 turbo/EFI 6 Rib, 78 front beam, vanagon backing plates on rear (project)
2001 GTI VR6 (wife's) |
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GeorgeO.
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010
Posts: 881
Location: Menifee, CA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: Pressing in ball joints-Busted two collars |
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| shiningstar76 wrote: |
| I bought VW 459, and got them out just fine. But I broke one ball joint collar installing the first, then added a lot of heat and went easy on the second, and ruined that one too. How are these pressed in without destroying the ball joint collar????? |
I don't know how many times I've heard, "never put heat to your arms" and low and behold, the ball joints go in really easy. When these things are forged, these thing are made glowing white hot and applying heat to these things is just a matter of procedure. All you do is just heat them until their hot and then you press the ball joints in. You should see what some joker did to two of my arms when he tried to install ball joints into two arms I gave him.
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germansupplyscott
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7094
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:52 am Post subject: |
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you will never need heat to press the ball joints into the arm. sometimes a little heat helps in getting them out.
in the original post the OP was not pressing them in properly at first so thought he needed something (heat) to get the joint to seat all the way home. the joints press into the arms with relative ease.
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SL |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16886
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:39 am Post subject: |
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i agree, i have used a little heat to remove them, never to install. GeorgeO...that really sucks.
depending on the company, i have seen the knurl way too big, as if they were oversized. the fix was to put them in a lathe and turn them .001 or so.
i forget when the interference fit is suppose to be. fwiw, i have never peened them either. never had an issue. if they were pressed in the other way around, i could see doing it, but the knuckle pretty much won't allow them to slide out.
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4539
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| tootype2crazy wrote: |
| Does the 7249 work well with bus ball joints borninabus? Our shop has one of these for VW cars (bugs, Karmann Ghias, etc) and it works well, but we always thought that the bus ones were so much more heavy duty that the torsion arms had to be pulled out and it had to be done in a hydraulic press. If that c-press works then that would speed things up significantly. |
yes, it works fine.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4539
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Link
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:52 am Post subject: |
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cool - some folks use two hammers - one against one side and then bang with the other. It helps soften the blow to the torsion arm. Excellent job. Nice video too.
Last edited by SGKent on Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:42 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Derek Cobb
Annoying
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2565
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| I love the little puff of smoke in that video. There's some stored up energy there. |
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GeorgeO.
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010
Posts: 881
Location: Menifee, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
i agree, i have used a little heat to remove them, never to install. GeorgeO...that really sucks.
depending on the company, i have seen the knurl way too big, as if they were oversized. the fix was to put them in a lathe and turn them .001 or so.
i forget when the interference fit is suppose to be. fwiw, i have never peened them either. never had an issue. if they were pressed in the other way around, i could see doing it, but the knuckle pretty much won't allow them to slide out. |
Let me rephrase that: A little heat to remove them is a matter of procedure. I stand corrected. |
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