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'88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4
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shadetreemech
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:54 pm    Post subject: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

Tracked down an exhaust leak to the manifold #4 cylinder. Bolt's not broken; I can snake a nail about 30 mm into the hole. The hole in the manifold and the threaded hole in the head appear to be about an 1/8" from lining up. Question is, how to line them up?

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Boltless hole is out of focus left center

I've got access to the bottom of the flange by removing the oil filter. I'm thinking, remove the bolts connecting the manifold to the crossover pipe and employing some Vanagon chiropracty.

I'm posting here, of course, in the hopes of some sage advice. If you please.

And, thank you.

Dan
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at #4 Reply with quote

Id separate the front half of the exhaust and remove it. Replace the bolts with studs and new gaskets. This will aid in aligning the flanges to the head. The pipe warp and get bent making using bolts next to impossible to install without risking cross threading.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

Heat and bending into the correct shape. Don't even think about trying to draw it on with the mounting hardware.

no No NO no NO

It will have to come off to be put into the right shape, measure how much and where it has to move to come into alignment.
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shadetreemech
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

Thank you to you both. I'll report back with results.

Dan
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

Yeah, I just noticed this on the WonderVan last week during water pump replacement...WTH???

Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Heat and bending into the correct shape. Don't even think about trying to draw it on with the mounting hardware.

no No NO no NO

It will have to come off to be put into the right shape, measure how much and where it has to move to come into alignment.



If you do this it will be very difficult to get it to fit again unless you have a jig. Loosen off the opposite side no 2 as the exhaust has been jacked out of place from hot cold cycles lengthing/shortening. And she should align up nicely. It's good to be causious but don't get caught out by OCS. (over cautious syndrome)
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

Remove the piece and file the holes a bit to create slight ovals. If you file both of the holes you will hardly throw the alignment of the center of the pipe off at all. To me it looks like a 1/32" ovaling of each of the two hole might be all you need.
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shadetreemech
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at Cylinder #4 Reply with quote

So, I get all the bolts undone on the 2 & 4 manifold, clean up the exposed heads and adjacent fittings and crawl under the van (up on ramps) to get a look-see. What appears to be a helicoil {or perhaps a timesert) is visible through a slot in the side of the head. All lines up. It's an easter egg! Looking at the first pic in this topic, I can see it on the right side.

Sittin' here sippin' an iced coffee I'm thinkin', high-temp JB Weld to span the gap?

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Your input is, as always, welcome.

Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

do you think the fastener lost torque and came out due to the lack of support of the helicoil? if the coil has expanded and is not allowing the fasterner to hold torque... that's a bad day. i'm probably way over thinking it...

can you torque a bolt in the hole and does it bottom out and hold fast?

it looks like it was drilled out when they drilled for the helicoil. if so, that hole is not in the correct place!


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Last edited by dabaron on Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:04 pm; edited 3 times in total
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shadetreemech
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

This adventure began with an exhaust leak which turned out to be a missing bolt in the manifold. The hole in the manifold doesn't line up with the hole in the head. I'll find out tomorrow morning whether the insert is a Pandora's Box just waiting for a sucker like me.

Dan
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dabaron
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

shadetreemech wrote:
This adventure began with an exhaust leak...


i think many a tale has started there. hope that is where it ends for you.
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shadetreemech
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters. When something happens, the only thing in your power is your attitude toward it; you can either accept it or resent it. Men are disturbed not by things, but by the view which they take of them".

Epictetus c. 50 135 AD

Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

You might be able to get someone with aluminium welding experience to fix that up for you, just build the area up, file it down and drill and tap a new hole.
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4Gears4Tires
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

https://www.jbweld.com/product/steelstik-epoxy-putty-stick

I'd bolt it all together and then smash a good bit of steelstik in the area. Just make sure you clean the area well and I'd probably move a bolt in and out a few threads every few minutes for a bit, just to make sure it's not getting permanently attached.

This is my repair of my thermostat housing. Still holding and it seems really solid.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

I am getting back to your question about spanning the gap.. Is this question regarding the gap between the exhaust flange and the head? I've had some luck with a bit of heat and a pipe wrench solving for both the twist (resulting in the initially mentioned bolt hole alignment) and the gap, if that is what you are talking about. My kids had found a used exhaust that roughly mimics what I see you showing here. It was in fair condition on arrival, and was just in need of a few tweaks. Also solved for a broken stud or bolt on that project. It was a bitter pill to hear they didn't immediately stop when they knew their coolant was leaking out from the floppy head seal, and now the remains of the engine are sitting around taunting me.
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shadetreemech
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

Well, sometimes the decisions we make, and the quality of work we accept, lives on to give the next owner a chance to do it right.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Bolt will thread in at least 5/8". I could file the hole in the manifold to accommodate the angle to the dangle; Quick & Dirty. Or, I can pull the head and consider a number of options. IF I pull the head I'll probably just replace it and do some clean up and painting on the intake manifolds. Gonna have to reflect on this.

Your thoughts?

Dan
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shadetreemech
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at Cylinder #4 Reply with quote

Turns out, on further inspection of the gasket, there never was a bolt in the hole after the initial bad drilling/helicoil job.

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"Never enough time to do it right but always enough time to it over".

Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

Bend a stud to the required angle in a vise and then screw it in and see if it will work for you.
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shadetreemech
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

That there's a novel idear.

Wouldn't allow the manifold flange to sit flush, though

Dan
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: '88 Westy Boltless at cylinder #4 Reply with quote

shadetreemech wrote:
That there's a novel idear.

Wouldn't allow the manifold flange to sit flush, though

Dan


Yes there are reasons this might not work, but maybe some judicious filing of the flange would fix that particular problem.
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