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New Windshields?
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: New Windshields? Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure my '57 needs a new windshield. I'm looking around and not having a whole lot of luck. Is anyone selling new quality windshields? I found one guy (karmannghias.com) that says he has early windshields measuring 17" (which I believe is correct for late windshields) and late windshields that don't actually state a height measurement... His feedback is less than stellar, so I'm pretty wary as is... Is anyone aware of a source for a new early windshield?
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-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
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"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
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danielsan
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He sells the FY which don't fit. You can make it fit if you use the non-German, non-blocked seal but its a bear.

You have a lowlight right? You can use the Plinkington without problems. Try mike at house of ghia.
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I'm not terribly surprised there...

Yes, lowlight. I'll give him a call once I get the car up here.
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Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got off the phone with HOG. No luck, they've been out for a few months. Is anyone aware of anyone else selling the quality windshields?
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Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danielsan wrote:
He sells the FY which don't fit. You can make it fit if you use the non-German, non-blocked seal but its a bear.


What's the story on how these don't fit specifically? If I can get the correct 17" windshield where and how am I going to have fitment issues?
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Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me
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mfitzsimor
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spectre,

I googled "Pilkington Glass" in Colorado and found outlets in Denver, Ft Collins, Colorado Springs and other towns there. You might try some of the shops directly.

I used the blocked corner seal from HOG with "T" trim and I'm happy with my "Pilkington" windshield in a 69 after 2 years. It went in pretty easily. I had some leaks at first, but flowable silicon took care of them.

Mark
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been chasing the proverbial goose here, and after calling HOG, I found the referenced manufacturer, Pilkington, and called them. They said they have never had/sold early windshields and have only ever sold a grand total of 5 of the later windshields ever with the last one having been sold more than 5 years ago (probably not what HOG had then, but I left a message just now and can hopefully verify that one way or the other soon).

Meanwhile, Pilkington referred me to... ready for it? KGPR! So I've come full circle.

They also referred me to a hard-to-find glass specialist on the east coast. They sell FYG (I assume same as FY) and claim they've never had nor heard any issues and that fitment is great. He measured the glass and says it is 17 1/8"... right between early and late... a 1/8" delta is not much, and may be within the available compression for the rubber. It may also be possible for a glass shop to grind out the difference...

Still chasing down this goose. Definitely feral, hoping it's not completely wild.
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Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me
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danielsan
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spectre6000 wrote:
danielsan wrote:
He sells the FY which don't fit. You can make it fit if you use the non-German, non-blocked seal but its a bear.


What's the story on how these don't fit specifically? If I can get the correct 17" windshield where and how am I going to have fitment issues?


The window that came with your car was 17.25 inches tall. The FY glass is 16.77 tall. The correct seal for your car assumes you are installing a 17.25 inch window. The almost half inch space will need to be taken up by the rubber -- you will almost certainly have gaps.

You can get the window in with the cal-look seal but it will take some effort. If I could use a Plinkinton window in my late model car I would.

Or, in a sentence: if you don't get the right glass you will have leaks and headaches.
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danielsan
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like our emails crossed -- I didn't see your post about the 17 1/8 glass. Sounds much better -- I had an FY that I got from a local glass shop (btw, ask your local glass shop if they can get the FY for you its code FW222 FYG).

The problem with China (despite the fact that its an authoritarian government and the labor conditions are terrible) is that the prices are so low that manufacturers have an incentive to cut corners; corners that even the worst company a western country wouldn't dream of cutting. If you are -- literally -- measuring profits in pennies than it makes sense to start shaving quarter inches of glass off a windshield . . . that's an extra penny of profit.

So there might be a good FYG out there. I'd ask your local glass place to get you a fw222 and measure it yourself. I did the same thing you did -- called all the manufacturers. Plinkington looked up the data on the their 'all years' window for me -- 17 and 1/4, making it an early, C-trim window.

PPG makes a 17 inch, (late, T-trim) window. That's what I have -- but I really want to find an untinted one. PPG still makes/ sells them but the shipping is crazy expensive.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLKSWAGON-KARMANN-GHIA-2D...0654422205

The other company that made them was Guardian -- 17 inch, late T-trim. There is a guy with 200 clear, Guardian windshields in Arizona but he has had so many problems with shipping he only sells them to people willing to pick them up. If you make the trip, pick one up for me Smile

Other than that -- its used, empty with googles, or vwheritage.co.uk. afaik.

mfitzsimor -- can you post photos of your window? If you got the trim to go in, I want to see if I can do the same.
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sparkleplenty
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Occasionally early windshields pop up for sale on here...I would wait if you can. The FY stuff is crap...Are you looking for perfect glass or are you willing to use used? Shipping glass can be a pain too...Keep your eyes peeled. You will find what you need...
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Andre@KGPR/Airhead
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If used is an option, we always have a couple. I'm sure Mike at HOG does too.

I just went to measure the new windshields, but we're totally out. I measured a few used ones, and the shortest I fount was 17 1/8, while the tallest was 17 1/4.
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lonotch
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A late windshield can work in a early car by using 1/8" shims on the top and bottom of the windshield.
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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are you using as a shim? It would need to be between the window and the rubber correct?
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lonotch
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used clear shims that are the same thickness as the glass and used VHB tape to adhere the shims to the edge of the glass on the top and bottom.
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andre@KGPR/Airhead wrote:
If used is an option, we always have a couple. I'm sure Mike at HOG does too.

I just went to measure the new windshields, but we're totally out. I measured a few used ones, and the shortest I fount was 17 1/8, while the tallest was 17 1/4.


Are the used windshields clean without chips, scratches, etc.?
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Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me
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Andre@KGPR/Airhead
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some are better than others, of course. None of them would pass for new. If you are considering one, call and ask a sales person to describe exactly what/which one you'll be getting.

I don't think there's any with actual chips, certainly no cracks, but I'd wager they all have scratches of some sort.
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The FYG windshields are purported not to fit. I get that. Though I've read and been told about four different and conflicting reasons why they don't fit, the most common and reliable sounding information is that the FYG windshields are 17 1/8" tall. This is too small for the later cars and too big for the early cars. A custom glass shop local to me tells me it is possible (for the early cars) to grind the 1/8" off the FYG if an original is available to use as a template... The windshield in my car has cal look rubbers courtesy of the PO ( Confused ), so I have no idea if it's early or late. I won't be able to know until I take it out and measure it, but at that point I'm committed to whatever I have in hand... I almost need to order an original AND an FYG windshield. The former as a template and backup for the latter.
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Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me
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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks lonotch.
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lonotch
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

c21darrel wrote:
Thanks lonotch.


PM me your phone number and I'll send you a pic of what the shims look like and I will be able to get a part number if you need some, any glass shop would be able to order them for you or they might carry them in stock already, they are used for high end shower enclosures installs.
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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When talking with KGPR the other day, it sounds like the differences in the size of the windshield are not due to the size of the hole in the body work (as it is with a Beetle), but the different style trim. The rear windows have a similar trajectory btw. My notes from the conversation are as follows:

front windshield
• 17 1/4" early
• 17" late

rear windshield
• 17 5/8" early
• 17 1/2" late

trim
• c channel early
• t profile late

What's not in my written notes is that since the applicable sheet metal didn't change, it follows that one could substitute a late setup (glass, rubber, trim) for the early setup with no adverse consequences.

This, then, raises the following question: how does the early trim differ from the late? The differences I'm aware of are the t/c profiles and the early is chrome compared to polished aluminum (that's aluminium for you, John) for the late. Is the outward appearance (disregard the subtle aesthetic differences between chrome and aluminum) the same? Width, profile, etc.?
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Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me


Last edited by spectre6000 on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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