Author |
Message |
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
|
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
New ignition switches cost like $10. Buy a replacement for the one you have and a spare. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5366 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
|
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think I may have found the problem. I was inspecting the ignition switch and connections and discovered the windshield washer hose going from the wiper switch to the windshield washer nozzles is leaking whenever I use the washer fluid. The hose is dry rotted and has cracks everywhere. The washer fluid is somehow making its way to the ignition switch assembly. When I had the no start problem I was using the washer fluid a fair amount because of splattered bugs on the windshield. I'll replace the washer hose and hope the no start problem goes away. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Manfreds78bay Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2009 Posts: 754 Location: PNW
|
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I read on the forums a while back that the original vw starters that came with the buses where bulletproof and having one rebuilt was better than buying a new one for reliability.
I took that advice and found one had it rebuilt by a local shop and have had no issues with the starter at all.
I also installed the hot start relay from Bus Da Pot and love it.
I know. I know. It's not fixing the real problem, but it's nice to have a bus you can relay (get it?) on while you track down this issue.
Am I wrong? _________________ 1978 2.0L FI Campmobile
1982 AMC Eagle SX4 4.2L FI |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
SGKent wrote: |
lube the solenoid if whacking it makes it start. It is the most common issue VW starters have. |
even if its a brand new starter? or a remanned starter? |
If it is a NEW starter the odds would be against it. If it is a re-manufactured starter then someone else had a problem with it before you did. It could even be an open winding in the solenoid but that would be rare. Lube the solenoid if it is a re-manufactured unit. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bobnorman Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010 Posts: 1389 Location: Newfoundland
|
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
SGKent wrote: |
lube the solenoid if whacking it makes it start. It is the most common issue VW starters have. |
even if its a brand new starter? or a remanned starter? |
I once went through 3 remanned starters in a row on a Golf that I had. Two had bad solenoids, the other had a bad bearing. So, yes, out of the box they can be bad.
Fixing the solenoid is pretty straightforward doing it yourself though, After you get the cover off, the problem is usually that the copper contact bar across the back needs to be cleaned up. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
|
Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
SGKent wrote: |
lube the solenoid if whacking it makes it start. It is the most common issue VW starters have. |
even if its a brand new starter? or a remanned starter? _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
lube the solenoid if whacking it makes it start. It is the most common issue VW starters have. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tootype2crazy Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007 Posts: 1276 Location: St. Louis Missouri
|
Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
bobnorman wrote: |
SGKent wrote: |
bobnorman wrote: |
Kiptere wrote: |
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings. |
This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away. |
because you changed the solenoid with it. Besides an 091 combo 2L won't take an autostick starter. |
No, it was the bushing. I had rebuilt the solenoid first, then tried other starters, all with no change. Moot point though now that I see he's talking about a '79. |
I work in a air cooled vw shop and we have to replace busings ALL THE TIME for this very reason. Bushings dont have infinite lifespans and on 40 year old vehicles they can swell from heat, be galled, broken in half and jammed in there, any number of things. That being said, the electrical system is the usual culprit for hot start problems, not the bushing. A bad bushing usually wont allow the starter to engage. Usually. I have seen what bobnorman described in a few instances. _________________ air-cooled or nothing for me
1978 Sunroof Deluxe Bus (daily driver)
1978 Transporter (mom's, making into a camper)
1970 Single Cab 2.1 turbo/EFI 6 Rib, 78 front beam, vanagon backing plates on rear (project)
2001 GTI VR6 (wife's) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mnskmobi Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2005 Posts: 536 Location: Melbourne, Australia
|
Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I suggest the OP try and grease the bushing. I had the same problem and after fruitless attempts to disassemble the solenoid ended up reinstalling everything and greased the bushing as per Bentley. Problem solved! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
|
Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
my problem has a new starter, and hitting the starter when you have the key turned made it start working, which points to a sticky starter. i think i am going to replace the starter (again) and see what that does. autozone sells em for about 40 bucks, so its not gonna hurt that bad.
i think they are remanned, but if it has a lifetime warranty, ill swap it out if the issue reoccurs. _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bobnorman Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010 Posts: 1389 Location: Newfoundland
|
Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
SGKent wrote: |
bobnorman wrote: |
Kiptere wrote: |
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings. |
This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away. |
because you changed the solenoid with it. Besides an 091 combo 2L won't take an autostick starter. |
No, it was the bushing. I had rebuilt the solenoid first, then tried other starters, all with no change. Moot point though now that I see he's talking about a '79. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
germansupplyscott Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 7093 Location: toronto
|
Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:28 am Post subject: Re: Starter Won't work after a long drives |
|
|
Joey wrote: |
You would think once the solenoid got hot the grease would thin out and not cause it to stick. |
it has to do with resistance in the wire from switch to starter and friction / resistance buildup in the starter from heat, it's not a lubrication issue.
as a test for your starter and wiring both - if you're game for a bit of work to find out what is bad - you can run a new long jumper wire (8-10ga) from switch to starter. it's the #50 wire you are going to jumper. so what you would do is remove the original #50 wire end from under the connector below the dash ('74 has a bundle of wires from switch located under dash) and run a new wire to the starter #50. the wire can run through the inside of the bus and down from the access hatch then fish to starter. the hot start can be this wire having high resistance or the starter itself not working hot and if the wire doesn't fix the issue then you need a new starter. the issue is usually both things at once because buses are old and the wires build up resistance. the 'hot start relay' will do the same thing. _________________ SL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5366 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
|
Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
It wasn't the battery. I always carry an extra fully charged battery with me on long trips. I swapped it and it still wouldn't start. My battery lives under the Z-bed. The ground cable goes from the battery to one of the seat belt mounting bolts. All is clean and tight.
BTW - the vehicle were talking about here is my '74 Bus which has a '79 FI engine/trans.
I'm going to check the connections at the ignition switch this evening to make sure all is good and clean. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
|
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've experienced this problem and it came down to the water level in my battery. Drive for any extended period of time and it would not start. Low levels of water in the battery can quickly discharge a battery to where you loose your cranking amps. I've experienced broken battery cables as well. As long as you don't have grease or grime on your starter post and connections, you may want to try there. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
i have a 78 automatic that i just put a new ignition switch, starter, and cleaned all connections and had it charging perfectly, and starting every time. guy took it on a trip and after highway miles, had a hot start problem. he made it home by whacking the starter....but its a NEW starter! any ideas? |
yes - two possibilities
(1) it is a rebuilt starter you mean? They test them and then if they work ship them, They don't rebuild the solenoid if it pulls in. Guy who owned it before you probably had the same issue if it is rebuilt. Have to replace the solenoid with a new one or lube it.
(2) your neutral switch could be going bad |
|
Back to top |
|
|
airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12728 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
i have a 78 automatic that i just put a new ignition switch, starter, and cleaned all connections and had it charging perfectly, and starting every time. guy took it on a trip and after highway miles, had a hot start problem. he made it home by whacking the starter....but its a NEW starter! any ideas? |
New as in "Euromax?" _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
|
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i have a 78 automatic that i just put a new ignition switch, starter, and cleaned all connections and had it charging perfectly, and starting every time. guy took it on a trip and after highway miles, had a hot start problem. he made it home by whacking the starter....but its a NEW starter! any ideas? _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51152 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
|
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
SGKent wrote: |
bobnorman wrote: |
Kiptere wrote: |
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings. |
This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away. |
because you changed the solenoid with it. Besides an 091 combo 2L won't take an autostick starter. |
Or perhaps all the terminal disturbing had something to do with it?, next time try removing and reinstalling the same starter, you may get a pleasant suprise _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
bobnorman wrote: |
Kiptere wrote: |
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings. |
This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away. |
because you changed the solenoid with it. Besides an 091 combo 2L won't take an autostick starter. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bobnorman Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010 Posts: 1389 Location: Newfoundland
|
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kiptere wrote: |
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings. |
This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|