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Starter Won't work after a long drives
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New ignition switches cost like $10. Buy a replacement for the one you have and a spare.
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Joey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I may have found the problem. I was inspecting the ignition switch and connections and discovered the windshield washer hose going from the wiper switch to the windshield washer nozzles is leaking whenever I use the washer fluid. The hose is dry rotted and has cracks everywhere. The washer fluid is somehow making its way to the ignition switch assembly. When I had the no start problem I was using the washer fluid a fair amount because of splattered bugs on the windshield. I'll replace the washer hose and hope the no start problem goes away.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read on the forums a while back that the original vw starters that came with the buses where bulletproof and having one rebuilt was better than buying a new one for reliability.

I took that advice and found one had it rebuilt by a local shop and have had no issues with the starter at all.

I also installed the hot start relay from Bus Da Pot and love it.

I know. I know. It's not fixing the real problem, but it's nice to have a bus you can relay (get it?) on while you track down this issue.

Am I wrong?
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuartzickefoose wrote:
SGKent wrote:
lube the solenoid if whacking it makes it start. It is the most common issue VW starters have.


even if its a brand new starter? or a remanned starter?


If it is a NEW starter the odds would be against it. If it is a re-manufactured starter then someone else had a problem with it before you did. It could even be an open winding in the solenoid but that would be rare. Lube the solenoid if it is a re-manufactured unit.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuartzickefoose wrote:
SGKent wrote:
lube the solenoid if whacking it makes it start. It is the most common issue VW starters have.


even if its a brand new starter? or a remanned starter?


I once went through 3 remanned starters in a row on a Golf that I had. Two had bad solenoids, the other had a bad bearing. So, yes, out of the box they can be bad.

Fixing the solenoid is pretty straightforward doing it yourself though, After you get the cover off, the problem is usually that the copper contact bar across the back needs to be cleaned up.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
lube the solenoid if whacking it makes it start. It is the most common issue VW starters have.


even if its a brand new starter? or a remanned starter?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lube the solenoid if whacking it makes it start. It is the most common issue VW starters have.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobnorman wrote:
SGKent wrote:
bobnorman wrote:
Kiptere wrote:
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings.


This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away.


because you changed the solenoid with it. Besides an 091 combo 2L won't take an autostick starter.


No, it was the bushing. I had rebuilt the solenoid first, then tried other starters, all with no change. Moot point though now that I see he's talking about a '79.


I work in a air cooled vw shop and we have to replace busings ALL THE TIME for this very reason. Bushings dont have infinite lifespans and on 40 year old vehicles they can swell from heat, be galled, broken in half and jammed in there, any number of things. That being said, the electrical system is the usual culprit for hot start problems, not the bushing. A bad bushing usually wont allow the starter to engage. Usually. I have seen what bobnorman described in a few instances.
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mnskmobi
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest the OP try and grease the bushing. I had the same problem and after fruitless attempts to disassemble the solenoid ended up reinstalling everything and greased the bushing as per Bentley. Problem solved! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my problem has a new starter, and hitting the starter when you have the key turned made it start working, which points to a sticky starter. i think i am going to replace the starter (again) and see what that does. autozone sells em for about 40 bucks, so its not gonna hurt that bad.


i think they are remanned, but if it has a lifetime warranty, ill swap it out if the issue reoccurs.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
bobnorman wrote:
Kiptere wrote:
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings.


This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away.


because you changed the solenoid with it. Besides an 091 combo 2L won't take an autostick starter.


No, it was the bushing. I had rebuilt the solenoid first, then tried other starters, all with no change. Moot point though now that I see he's talking about a '79.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: Starter Won't work after a long drives Reply with quote

Joey wrote:
You would think once the solenoid got hot the grease would thin out and not cause it to stick.


it has to do with resistance in the wire from switch to starter and friction / resistance buildup in the starter from heat, it's not a lubrication issue.

as a test for your starter and wiring both - if you're game for a bit of work to find out what is bad - you can run a new long jumper wire (8-10ga) from switch to starter. it's the #50 wire you are going to jumper. so what you would do is remove the original #50 wire end from under the connector below the dash ('74 has a bundle of wires from switch located under dash) and run a new wire to the starter #50. the wire can run through the inside of the bus and down from the access hatch then fish to starter. the hot start can be this wire having high resistance or the starter itself not working hot and if the wire doesn't fix the issue then you need a new starter. the issue is usually both things at once because buses are old and the wires build up resistance. the 'hot start relay' will do the same thing.
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Joey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wasn't the battery. I always carry an extra fully charged battery with me on long trips. I swapped it and it still wouldn't start. My battery lives under the Z-bed. The ground cable goes from the battery to one of the seat belt mounting bolts. All is clean and tight.

BTW - the vehicle were talking about here is my '74 Bus which has a '79 FI engine/trans.

I'm going to check the connections at the ignition switch this evening to make sure all is good and clean.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've experienced this problem and it came down to the water level in my battery. Drive for any extended period of time and it would not start. Low levels of water in the battery can quickly discharge a battery to where you loose your cranking amps. I've experienced broken battery cables as well. As long as you don't have grease or grime on your starter post and connections, you may want to try there.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuartzickefoose wrote:
i have a 78 automatic that i just put a new ignition switch, starter, and cleaned all connections and had it charging perfectly, and starting every time. guy took it on a trip and after highway miles, had a hot start problem. he made it home by whacking the starter....but its a NEW starter! any ideas?


yes - two possibilities

(1) it is a rebuilt starter you mean? They test them and then if they work ship them, They don't rebuild the solenoid if it pulls in. Guy who owned it before you probably had the same issue if it is rebuilt. Have to replace the solenoid with a new one or lube it.

(2) your neutral switch could be going bad
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuartzickefoose wrote:
i have a 78 automatic that i just put a new ignition switch, starter, and cleaned all connections and had it charging perfectly, and starting every time. guy took it on a trip and after highway miles, had a hot start problem. he made it home by whacking the starter....but its a NEW starter! any ideas?


New as in "Euromax?"
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have a 78 automatic that i just put a new ignition switch, starter, and cleaned all connections and had it charging perfectly, and starting every time. guy took it on a trip and after highway miles, had a hot start problem. he made it home by whacking the starter....but its a NEW starter! any ideas?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
bobnorman wrote:
Kiptere wrote:
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings.


This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away.


because you changed the solenoid with it. Besides an 091 combo 2L won't take an autostick starter.

Or perhaps all the terminal disturbing had something to do with it?, next time try removing and reinstalling the same starter, you may get a pleasant suprise Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobnorman wrote:
Kiptere wrote:
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings.


This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away.


because you changed the solenoid with it. Besides an 091 combo 2L won't take an autostick starter.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiptere wrote:
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings.


This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away.
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