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bgprest
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Joined: December 15, 2009
Posts: 158
Location: Plano, TX
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 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:35 am Post subject: US spec versus Canadian spec Bugs? |
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How did the Canadian Bugs differ from US Bugs, specifically in the early 60's? I've done some TheSamba searches and Google searches and can't find anything.
I think there were at the very least some differences in the engine lid badging where I believe the Canadian cars had no badge on the actual engine lid but rather a different design badge on the left rear fender.
I'd like to know if I'm correct on that and other differences there may be.
Thanks. |
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wayne1230cars
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 2685
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:08 am Post subject: |
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The "Canadian Custom" or "standard" was available in Canada.
It was essentially the same mechanically as the "deluxe" edition but had less trim inside and out. For instance there was no outside trim in the window rubber or running boards. Steering wheel was different. Headliner did not cover as much area. They sold for about 9% less than the deluxe. In 1961, Canadian price for the deluxe was $1895 and $1730 for the custom.
The first VW I ever rode in was my uncle's 1958 "Canadian Custom."
As far as the badges on the rear fenders, some dealers seemed to do that but I am not certain that all did. I am also not sure of what the ratio of Canadian sales, custom vs. deluxe was, but I do not remember the customs being all that common.
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wayne1230cars
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 2685
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:28 am Post subject: |
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This is a 1967 Canadian Custom. You will notice in this description that besides the trim differences, this used the 1192 cc, 41.5 hp engine rather than than the 1500 cc 53hp found in the deluxe.
There may have been other minor differences between the USA spec beetles and Canadian beetles in the deluxe version. Later on in the '70s there was some colour availability differences between the 2 markets.
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bgprest
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Joined: December 15, 2009
Posts: 158
Location: Plano, TX
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| wayne1230cars wrote: |
| As far as the badges on the rear fenders, some dealers seemed to do that but I am not certain that all did. I am also not sure of what the ratio of Canadian sales, custom vs. deluxe was, but I do not remember the customs being all that common. |
So, were rear badges applied by the dealerships? I never knew that. |
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wayne1230cars
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 2685
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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[img]
[/img]
[img][/img][img][/img]
Some more pics borrowed from the Samba gallery(thanks to all the original posters). Right rear fender is the place to look. I am thinking that they were installed at the dealer rather than factory but I stand to be corrected. Of course fenders were changed and window rubber with trim and running boards added to "upgrade" the original Canadian Custom over the years. I personally would love to own a Canadian Custom.
I am not sure when they stopped putting the emblem on the fenders but it is rather unique. There are quite a few little differences in the dash knobs and window risers and door handles as well.
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*Darren
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Joined: July 29, 2013
Posts: 917
Location: MD
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| The '67 CC sounds much like the budget 1200 model sold elsewhere into the 70s. With the 40 hp replacing the 36 hp in 1965. Seeing that the 1200 was sold in Canada at least until 1967, and doing a quick search to no avail, my question is was the 36 hp available in Canada post 1960? |
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bgprest
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Joined: December 15, 2009
Posts: 158
Location: Plano, TX
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| wayne1230cars wrote: |
[img][img]Right rear fender is the place to look. I am thinking that they were installed at the dealer rather than factory but I stand to be corrected. Of course fenders were changed and window rubber with trim and running boards added to "upgrade" the original Canadian Custom over the years. I personally would love to own a Canadian Custom.
I am not sure when they stopped putting the emblem on the fenders but it is rather unique. There are quite a few little differences in the dash knobs and window risers and door handles as well. |
Interesting. My '61 Ragtop has Canadian roots but its emblem is on the left rear fender. |
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wayne1230cars
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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You will notice in the description of the red 1966 custom, that the engine used was the 40 hp and not the newly available 1300cc which would have been in the deluxe beetles. Up to 1965, it seems that engines were the same custom or deluxe.
Was the 36 hp engine available in post 1960 Canadian cars?? Doesn't seem like it was but I stand to be corrected on that.
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wayne1230cars
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 2685
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| bgprest wrote: |
| wayne1230cars wrote: |
[img][img]Right rear fender is the place to look. I am thinking that they were installed at the dealer rather than factory but I stand to be corrected. Of course fenders were changed and window rubber with trim and running boards added to "upgrade" the original Canadian Custom over the years. I personally would love to own a Canadian Custom.
I am not sure when they stopped putting the emblem on the fenders but it is rather unique. There are quite a few little differences in the dash knobs and window risers and door handles as well. |
Interesting. My '61 Ragtop has Canadian roots but its emblem is on the left rear fender. |
That is interesting. Could it have been a dealer preference thing like which side the radio antenna was installed on? Not sure.
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Joel
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Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| wayne1230cars wrote: |
Was the 36 hp engine available in post 1960 Canadian cars?? Doesn't seem like it was but I stand to be corrected on that. |
I'm sure from memory someone on here posted a mid 60s Canadian car with a late 36hp in it but they were definitely around well into the mid 60s in Europe,
complete with fresh air heater system 
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wayne1230cars
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Another possibility might be this. I had several friends growing up whose fathers were in the Canadian military and and they were posted to a Canadian Armed Forces base in Germany. Typically it was at least a two year placement and their families lived with them on the base. When they returned to Canada they were legally allowed to bring back a VW or any car I suppose and they often did. Possible that some of the 36 hp European spec post 1960's ended up in Canada but were not necessarily imported by Volkswagen of Canada.
Were they actually ever sold by VW of Canada? Good question. Perhaps someone with direct knowledge of such can chime in here.
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*Darren
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Joined: July 29, 2013
Posts: 917
Location: MD
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Did some searching of the gallery - no luck. Went back & searched the forum again and found this thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3...t=canadianand this response so I think I (we) have an answer. Now to actually have a photo of one 
| Helfen wrote: |
Canadian 1200 custom's used the 36hp until Aug 1965 just like the European standards (1200A's). In 1966 they switched to the 1200 40hp until the end of german production in Jan. 1978.
Don |
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wayne1230cars
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 2685
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| *Darren wrote: |
Did some searching of the gallery - no luck. Went back & searched the forum again and found this thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3...t=canadianand this response so I think I (we) have an answer. Now to actually have a photo of one
| Helfen wrote: |
Canadian 1200 custom's used the 36hp until Aug 1965 just like the European standards (1200A's). In 1966 they switched to the 1200 40hp until the end of german production in Jan. 1978.
Don |
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That is an interesting thread that I had not read before. The "1961 Canadian Custom brochure" is referenced in this thread. And yes, the 1192 cc displacement applies to both 36 and 40 hp engines. However, the engine specs given in the brochure are clearly for the 40 hp. The brochure could be wrong, possibly. Fifty-two years ago we did not quite have this "false advertising- law suit mentality" that is prevalent today. If this brochure is indeed wrong and such a thing had happened today, there would be the biggest class action law suit that you could imagine.
Again, an interesting question.
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*Darren
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Location: MD
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I took the post in the other thread to mean that there was a 36hp model available in addition to the the regular 40hp. As I mentioned (and the other post did as well) in Europe there was a 1200 model (40 hp) well into the 1970's in addition to the regular model. Given that in Canada the 1200 model existed in 1967 - it's seems plausable that a 36 hp model existed prior to 1966 (since the last 36 was produced in 1965). But the only way to know for sure that was the case in Canada is to either find a 36 hp post 1960 car or a brochure that indicates it was possible. IF such a bug exists - it would have to be one of only a very few. |
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wayne1230cars
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| *Darren wrote: |
| I took the post in the other thread to mean that there was a 36hp model available in addition to the the regular 40hp. As I mentioned (and the other post did as well) in Europe there was a 1200 model (40 hp) well into the 1970's in addition to the regular model. Given that in Canada the 1200 model existed in 1967 - it's seems plausable that a 36 hp model existed prior to 1966 (since the last 36 was produced in 1965). But the only way to know for sure that was the case in Canada is to either find a 36 hp post 1960 car or a brochure that indicates it was possible. IF such a bug exists - it would have to be one of only a very few. |
That is a good point Darren.
Again I would refer back to my previous post about Canadian military personnel being allowed to bring back to Canada a car that they had purchased while serving in Germany. It was one of the perks of serving your country. Laws were pretty lax in those days as far the importation rules went, unlike today trying to import a Mexican made bug into the country.
There could well have been 1961 - 65 cars with their original 36 hp engine here in Canada brought back by military personnel from Europe. The question remains though were there any 36 hp 1961 - 65 bugs that were actually imported by VW of Canada for sale in Canada?
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*Darren
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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True enough about military personnel as the initial thread I linked to contains a 36 hp car brought back to the US by a US serviceman. I did note the brochure that at least by 1966 (1300 vs 1200) there appears not to be a 36 hp available to Canadian customers (obvious - since the last 36 was produced in 1965). But I remain curious if a 36 hp was available to Canadian customers post 1960 by direct means rather than through European delivery.
Last edited by *Darren on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bruce
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Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| bgprest wrote: |
| ... were rear badges applied by the dealerships? |
The right rear fender emblem was a dealer only installed item. And only on cars sold in Canada. The emblem was made in Canada.
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wayne1230cars
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 2685
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| bgprest wrote: |
| ... were rear badges applied by the dealerships? |
The right rear fender emblem was a dealer only installed item. And only on cars sold in Canada. The emblem was made in Canada. |
Bruce: Do you know when they stopped using the fender emblems on Canadian cars? Also, did all Canadian dealerships do this or was it optional?
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Helfen
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Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Joel wrote: |
| wayne1230cars wrote: |
Was the 36 hp engine available in post 1960 Canadian cars?? Doesn't seem like it was but I stand to be corrected on that. |
I'm sure from memory someone on here posted a mid 60s Canadian car with a late 36hp in it but they were definitely around well into the mid 60s in Europe,
complete with fresh air heater system
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The bottom picture in the post above is the engine of my 65 "A" sedan, The engine is a 36hp fresh air and it's the matching # engine to my chassis. Canadian 1200 Customs are still type 111's and have the 36hp engine too. The main difference between a Canadian 1200 custom and a "A" sedan (former standard) for 1965 is: Canada gets the 1956-1959 deluxe steering wheel, Canada gets chrome outside door handles and hood pull, painted inside door handles and rear deck lid pull, gets a crankcase emission devise on the 36 hp, Canada gets some deluxe trim (body side molding), gets deluxe towel rack bumpers (Canadian & U.S. bumper height required) Canadian gets MPH speedometer. Canadian gets all red tail lamps. Canada gets U.S. style headlamp cover glass. However any 1965 European "A" sedan ( former standard designation) could be ordered with some deluxe appointments including all the before mentioned items on the Canadian model except the crankcase devise, a mph speedometer, Headlamp glass stone covers and rear tail lamps which have amber rear turn signal lens. This is important for someone who wanted to buy a 111 and return with it to the States or Canada. My car was built almost to all of the Canadian 1200 Custom features except the crankcase devise and the tail lamps, windshield glass and kilometer speedo. My car got stopped in the port of L.A. U.S. customs because somehow Wolfsburg screwed up and missed the tail lamps, speedometer, windshield glass. This was actually a blessing because when I bought the car in 1968 the owner had all those parts saved sans the windshield, which I put on later.
Here are some shots of my car; click on the links
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/516077.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/516078.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/516079.jpg
Since that interior photo was taken I have repainted the the pieces that were painted black and changed the door handles to the painted type. FYI Canadian 1200 Customs and Euro standards and 65 "A" sedans paint for bumper brackets, door handles, wiper arms and anything on a Euro standard model or "A" sedan like bumpers or hub caps are NOT painted L-91 silver, instead they are painted L328 Steel gray.
One last thing on the 1200 Custom and a "A" sedan or standard with deluxe towel rack bumpers is the rear bumper bracket. They are different from a deluxe car with the same bumper. The deluxe car with deluxe bumpers come with a lower bracket that is three piece or a reinforcing third piece where as a 1200 custom or a euro spec. car with towel rack bumpers has a lower rear bracket of two pieces only.
Here is something to throw in the mix. My car is on the left, the car on the right is a Deluxe 1967 1300 six volt with it's original owner bought new in Hamburg.
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20834/images/img_0138_edited_1.jpg
FYI my chrome is all original and I painted it in my driveway in 1973 with original VW lacquer, the car has 178,000 kilometers;
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20834/images/img_0135_edited_1.jpg |
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wayne1230cars
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Posts: 2685
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Helfen for posting the pics and details of your car. You have a very unique car/engine combo. In fact, I would say rare.
It is documented testimony as to the flexibility of the factory and ordering options. Talk about a "mix and match menu". 
Does your dash look like this 1964 Canadian custom with no dash trim?
It would be very interesting to know the custom/deluxe ratio of purchases. The only hint I could find was in one of the brochures - "Most people opt for the deluxe but the custom is another option." You would have to think that the deluxe sales were dramatically higher than the custom.
Again a very nice car.
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