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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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 Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| wayne1230cars wrote: |
Thanks Helfen for posting the pics and details of your car. You have a very unique car/engine combo. In fact, I would say rare.
It is documented testimony as to the flexibility of the factory and ordering options. Talk about a "mix and match menu". 
Does your dash look like this 1964 Canadian custom with no dash trim?
It would be very interesting to know the custom/deluxe ratio of purchases. The only hint I could find was in one of the brochures - "Most people opt for the deluxe but the custom is another option." You would have to think that the deluxe sales were dramatically higher than the custom.
Again a very nice car. |
Yes the dash is the same, but that dash is a 1966 as there is no choke pull like mine and that car also has seat tracks as you can see the adjusting lever on the seat frame, it also has the ignition switch in the deluxe position, and the door panels are different for 1966 (see my pictures for the difference in one of my links). My car has no fuel gauge, but uses the new type tank with a fuel tap ( the 180 degree type instead of the 90 degree tap), the car does not have the chrome strip across the dash nor the chrome ring around the speedometer. No passenger dash assist grab bar, Driver only sun visor, Rear view mirror painted black, inside door handles painted steel gray, door panels are not two tone like deluxe and all no matter what body color have gray door panels and no map pouch on drivers door, no arm rest on the passenger door and no ash tray on the rt. rear quarter panel. You will also notice the absence of a ignition switch in the dash and on opposite side there is the pull knob for the manual choke for the 28PCI solex carburetor. The headliner on these cars is the 3/4 type.....also the floor pans are different from the deluxe for two reasons. One is there are no seat tracks welded to the pan and instead there are studs in the pan and you use a claw and wing nut to secure or move and adjust the seat. Two the pans have the old snap over buttons in the pan ( two for driver, 2 passenger ft and two for each side in the rear. These buttons are for the floor mats to snap over and to hold them in place. This means if you want to replace your mats, carpet material you need to order these parts for a 65 111 you need to order the all those parts and ask for 1956 57 era parts. Also the tunnel up to the gear shift lever has a single piece rubber cover and from the gears shift lever to the seat belt anchors is just exposed painted black tunnel. There are no door switches for the dome/map light but the recesses are there in the "A" pillar...so the dome/map light is manual only.
In 1966 the standard model is updated it's now called instead of a "A" sedan but rather the 1200"A" and has 1200 on the rear deck lid. The new 1200"A" now has seat tracks, a center defroster ( like a deluxe 1966 1300 ) the engine is now the "new updated 40 hp 1200" and comes for the first time since 1938 with a 28PICT auto choke. This new 40hp will remain the base engine for the 1200"A" until the end of beetle production in Germany in January 1978 and the very last Beetle produced in Germany was a 1200 40hp with the swing axle.
I would say the 65 111 basic beetle is the last of the very basic beetles because of the 36 hp engine/manual choke, and the seats being secured by stud wing nut fashion....hard to get more basic than that by 1965 standards!! |
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*Darren
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Joined: July 29, 2013
Posts: 917
Location: MD
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| wayne1230cars wrote: |
It would be very interesting to know the custom/deluxe ratio of purchases. The only hint I could find was in one of the brochures - "Most people opt for the deluxe but the custom is another option." You would have to think that the deluxe sales were dramatically higher than the custom.
Again a very nice car. |
I was curious and looked at vin/engine numbers in the tech section. From 8/31/60 (no numbers for standard 36 hp prior to 8/31) through 7/31/61.
753404 vs. 23643 36 hp. A ratio of 32 to 1.
From 8/31/64 (number change between 7-8/64) through 12/31/64 (1200 designation began 1/65) 336871 vs 11271 again about 32 to 1.
However, the 36 hp numbers did not end until May 64, so early 1200 models are 36. From 8/31/64 through 5/31/65 787937 vs 44557 or about 18 to 1. As VW was simply running out 36 production. The ratio is not as great as I thought, still given about a 95% attrition rate - not many surviving 36 hp late model standards. |
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wayne1230cars
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 2685
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:40 am Post subject: |
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That is definitely basic! 
The pic I posted is from a 1964 Canadian brochure. I am certainly aware though of brochure inaccuracies. There are multiple examples of such.
_________________
1960 beetle
1970 beetle convertible |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| *Darren wrote: |
| wayne1230cars wrote: |
It would be very interesting to know the custom/deluxe ratio of purchases. The only hint I could find was in one of the brochures - "Most people opt for the deluxe but the custom is another option." You would have to think that the deluxe sales were dramatically higher than the custom.
Again a very nice car. |
I was curious and looked at vin/engine numbers in the tech section. From 8/31/60 (no numbers for standard 36 hp prior to 8/31) through 7/31/61.
753404 vs. 23643 36 hp. A ratio of 32 to 1.
From 8/31/64 (number change between 7-8/64) through 12/31/64 (1200 designation began 1/65) 336871 vs 11271 again about 32 to 1.
However, the 36 hp numbers did not end until May 64, so early 1200 models are 36. From 8/31/64 through 5/31/65 787937 vs 44557 or about 18 to 1. As VW was simply running out 36 production. The ratio is not as great as I thought, still given about a 95% attrition rate - not many surviving 36 hp late model standards. |
When VW switched to the new 40hp August 1960 you will see two engine categories below;
Year Chassis Engine Rear Axle Front Axle Engine No.
Standard Notes
1960
Jan 2 862 052 3 598 973 A(B)2 780 435
687 705 2 874 732
Feb 2 922 174 3 658 782 A(B)2 851 293
689 467 2 933 392
Mar 2 988 365 3 726 116 A(B)2 931 154
691 256 3 000 092
Apr 3 048 367 3 786 158 A(B)3 005 555
693 122 3 058 094
May 3 115 196 3 852 394 A(B)3 086 252
695 089 3 122 843
Jun 3 178 360 3 909 830 A(B)3 160 330
697 015 3 184 697
Jul 3 204 566 3 927 802 A(B)3 175 096
697 382 3 203 961
Aug 3 267 185 5 073 407 A(B)3 244 458
699 178 3 273 061 3 900 380
Sep 3 355 847 5 157 563 A(B)3 326 526
700 679 3 339 738 3 902 552
Oct 3 405 533 5 223 966 A(B)3 468 638
701 544 3 405 251 3 903 778
Nov 3 478 068 5 307 207 A(B)3 551 583
702 399 3 474 449 3 905 430
Dec 3 551 044 5 428 637 A(B)3 637 181
703 268 3 543 878 3 907 587
For 1965 you see two engine numbers again;
1965 Engine 1200A
Jan 115 500 000 9 389 000 7 552 095 6 957 154 3 989 871
Feb 115 574 322 9 284 780 7 653 509 7 044 273 3 994 992
Mar 115 678 203 9 371 458 7 769 967 7 145 359 4 002 980
Apr 115 767 035 9 552 548 7 875 264 7 236 786 4 010 965
May 115 861 066 9 635 887 7 983 793 7 329 550 4 018 015
Jun 115 967 150 9 724 765 8 093 038 7 422 827 **3 539 951
Jul 115 979 202 9 725 086 8 131 843 7 455 788 **3 546 988
Go to the technical section ( Beetle Vin/Chassis numbers ) to see this chart as it won't let me copy it as printed. 36hp production ends July 1965.
Last edited by Helfen on Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
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Location: PNW
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*Darren
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2013
Posts: 917
Location: MD
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:21 am Post subject: |
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That's what I looked at - you caught me on a mistake - in bumping around different columns - I inadvertently began looking at the first column - not noticing the switch (into chassis #s) being in a hurry multitasking. But the numbers stand about the same as I only excluded the august production figures & now one doesn't know what August 60 40 hp production was (rather than 36hp) - so again a ratio of 32 to 1.
EDIT just went back and did all the calculations.
64 40 hp 8796622-7893119 = 903503
64 36 hp 3974948-3959304 = 15644* ratio 58:1
63 40 hp 7893118-6935204 = 957914
63 36 hp 3959303-3942915 = 16388 ratio 58:1
62 40 hp 6935203-5958949 = 976254
62 36 hp 3942914-3924024 = 18890 ratio 52:1
61 40 hp 5958948-5073407 = 885541
61 36 hp 3924023-3900380 = 23643 ratio 37:1
* used the highest serial number which is in May 64 as the serial numbers are out of sequence (June & July are lower numbers than May).
** again, used numbers beginning with 8/31 as don't have first 40hp serial number. |
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Helfen
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Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| One last thing about 1965 and earlier Standards, "A" sedans and 1200 Customs. When VW started producing the new tunnel type all synchronizing transaxle in 1961 the above mentioned cars also got this new gearbox, however the ring and pinion in those cars remained at 4.43:1 while all deluxe models with the 40hp got the 4.375:1 box. This is important if it ever comes a time your trans goes bad. You just can't do that exchange bit because of the ratio's. If you do you'll turn your 36hp into a dog. |
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Snort
Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2005
Posts: 1957
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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I've had a curiosity about the fresh air 36hp motor used in the Standard Beetles. Today, while musing about all of the reasons why I should not make building a fresh air 36hp motor a priority in my life, I realized that one limitation to doing it correctly would be the case mounting holes for the heat exchanger sleds. Then I remembered that I indeed had an example of those holes on a case hanging in my garage which belonged to my factory rebuilt motor I purchased in the mid-70's which was setup for stale air heat exchangers.
I often wondered back then why they would put those mounting holes on the case for a stale air system but until today I never figured out the connection. I thought I would pass along a snapshot of how those holes were located in case anyone wants the reference in the future. It seems like there should be some sort of Standard Beetle collection of information somewhere easy to find, but this topic seemed a good fit for now.
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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In 1969 and 1970 Canadian supplied beetles and possibly buses received a 111 905 205 T distributor instead of the 113 905 205 T distributor that came on USA bound cars. The distributors are identical except for the part numbers as far as I have been able to determine.
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Snort wrote: |
I've had a curiosity about the fresh air 36hp motor used in the Standard Beetles. Today, while musing about all of the reasons why I should not make building a fresh air 36hp motor a priority in my life, I realized that one limitation to doing it correctly would be the case mounting holes for the heat exchanger sleds. Then I remembered that I indeed had an example of those holes on a case hanging in my garage which belonged to my factory rebuilt motor I purchased in the mid-70's which was setup for stale air heat exchangers.
I often wondered back then why they would put those mounting holes on the case for a stale air system but until today I never figured out the connection. I thought I would pass along a snapshot of how those holes were located in case anyone wants the reference in the future. It seems like there should be some sort of Standard Beetle collection of information somewhere easy to find, but this topic seemed a good fit for now.
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If you look at the bottom of the case you will find the boss for the missing drain plug, as the newer 36 hp cases drain their oil through the strainer plate instead of a drain plug hole in the case. There is also a machined hole to fasten the oil breather/ road draft tube in the fixed generator stand. |
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pskierst
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Joined: June 06, 2014
Posts: 4
Location: Albuquerque
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Hi, I just found this thread doing some research and am hoping some of you who posted may be able to shed some light on a question I have. I own a 1966 Beetle, which I bought 40 years ago and have been driving ever since. When I bought the car it had solid wheels, and rounded hubcaps, like a 65 Beetle. Although I have restored the car and it's in great shape, I have kept it that way. Now, we all know that in 66 VW went to slotted wheels and flat hubcaps. I've never known why mine were different, and was a kid when I bought the car and didn't think to ask. I've learned that the car was imported from Wolfsburg to Canada in October 65. Is there any reason to think that some 66 Beetles with 1300 engines but round hubcaps were sent to Canada? This is a shot in the dark I know but any thoughts would be appreciated. |
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Helfen
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Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Take a look at the picture in the link. My 65 Type 111 "A" Sedan near the camera and my friends 1966 Type 115 ( ragtop sunroof) 1200 "A". My car is the last produced with a 36hp engine and his car is the first year for the 40hp engine. Because you could also buy a deluxe beetle which had the 1300, the base model now boasted the 1200 badge on the rear deck lid. Anyroad notice that his car does not have the slotted wheels.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/516078.jpg
http://www.cc356c.com/43a20060.jpg |
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pskierst
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Joined: June 06, 2014
Posts: 4
Location: Albuquerque
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you, that is really interesting. I had no idea. I have never seen a "1200" badge before. I want to make sure I've understood your note: the car furthest away in the photo you sent, your friend's, is a 66 with that "1200" badge an a 40 hp engine? Never knew VW did that. Also, I note it's got that smaller license plate light, and I thought those had changed in 64. I'm learning there are lots of variations not in the books. Was your friend's car a Canadian import as well? I appreciate the information and the photos. |
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Helfen
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Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| pskierst wrote: |
| Thank you, that is really interesting. I had no idea. I have never seen a "1200" badge before. I want to make sure I've understood your note: the car furthest away in the photo you sent, your friend's, is a 66 with that "1200" badge an a 40 hp engine? Never knew VW did that. Also, I note it's got that smaller license plate light, and I thought those had changed in 64. I'm learning there are lots of variations not in the books. Was your friend's car a Canadian import as well? I appreciate the information and the photos. |
Yes, you are correct in the order of cars. You noticed both cars have the same small licence plate lamp and that is correct for those models.
In 1967 things really get bizarre in that there are four different sedans not counting the rt hand drives and the two types of sunroof models ( rag top sunroof and steel sliding sunroof).
Those four 1967 sedans would be 1200 "A", & 1300 deluxe, both of which are 6 volt systems and the old style headlamps, And the 1500 deluxe European version with 12 volts and disc brakes, and the U.S. version with 12 volts and drum brakes. Really there are five as the Beetle produced in Mexico / South America in 1967 had the 1958-1964 body.
On a final note the very last car produced in Germany in January 1978 was a swing axle 40HP 1200 "A". |
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pskierst
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Joined: June 06, 2014
Posts: 4
Location: Albuquerque
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Fascinating. I've seen a number of those "Changes Over the Years" lists in books---you know, describing how the Beetle changed, and they're good, but what it seems they really mean is "Changes in the US model that you usually see." So it seems that the answer to the mystery of why my 66 Beetle has rounded hubcaps and solid wheels is that he came off the line in Wolfsburg that way, and was shipped to Canada that way----would you agree? |
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Helfen
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Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| pskierst wrote: |
| Fascinating. I've seen a number of those "Changes Over the Years" lists in books---you know, describing how the Beetle changed, and they're good, but what it seems they really mean is "Changes in the US model that you usually see." So it seems that the answer to the mystery of why my 66 Beetle has rounded hubcaps and solid wheels is that he came off the line in Wolfsburg that way, and was shipped to Canada that way----would you agree? |
Yes I agree. I also wish someone would write a book telling ALL the variations done in all countries in the same timeline format. When I first bought my 65 "A" sedan forty six years ago people, even VW dealer people would say someone put the wrong engine in your car. It was only after I became a VW line and unit repair mechanic did I start to run into some older mechanic's from Germany, Brazil, Switzerland that understood the different models and helped me out. |
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pskierst
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Joined: June 06, 2014
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Location: Albuquerque
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| That would be a huge undertaking, but it sure would be a big help. Well, thank you very much. You have shed a lot of light on something that has perplexed me for a long time. If you ever find yourself headed to Albuquerque, let me know. I owe you a beer. |
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Helfen
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Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| pskierst wrote: |
| That would be a huge undertaking, but it sure would be a big help. Well, thank you very much. You have shed a lot of light on something that has perplexed me for a long time. If you ever find yourself headed to Albuquerque, let me know. I owe you a beer. |
Your welcome. I'm a lot closer than you think. I moved from my old retirement house in central Ca. to my new retirement house right next door to you in Prescott AZ. |
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notsnarb
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Joined: April 05, 2006
Posts: 845
Location: MI
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I've a question about my Canadian supplied '61 Vert. Should it have US style bumpers or the single blade European style?
I've seen both and my car does not have the round holes for the poles. Of course both front and rear aprons may have been replaced.
Canadian brothers can you advise me? |
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Helfen
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Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| branston wrote: |
I've a question about my Canadian supplied '61 Vert. Should it have US style bumpers or the single blade European style?
I've seen both and my car does not have the round holes for the poles. Of course both front and rear aprons may have been replaced.
Canadian brothers can you advise me? |
Canadian and U.S. cars have the same or did have the same bumper height requirement. Referring back to my 65 111, I knew the original owner who had to order my car ( a "A" sedan) with towel rack bumpers. He picked up my car at the Wolfsburg factory and toured Europe before bringing it home.
Even the 65 Canadian 111 which was called the 1200 Custom ( the base "A" Sedan in Canada ) has deluxe towel rack bumpers. See the link;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/65canadafullline/page3_4.jpg
Here is a Canadian Vert.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/65canadafullline/page9_10.jpg
Canadian deluxe and a type 3 for 65;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/65canadafullline/cover.jpg |
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