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racoguy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 687
Location: new zealand
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 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:57 pm Post subject: Turbo cam help for 2024cc |
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Building a mild street motor right now and after buying all the parts kinda changed my mind and want to go small turbo.
Engine is a 90.5 x 78.8 stroker with Scat 043 mini D port heads and C45 cam, 1.25 rockers and fuel injection.
I only want to run a small turbo like a KO3 or KO3S to build boost at low rpm, not looking to add max possible hp.
Question is the cam.................suitable enough for that size engine?
Will probably run 7.5:1 compression.
Last edited by racoguy on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7215
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Too much cam and turbo is too small (I think. I´m not 100% sure I know which one you are referring to)
Go Web 218 or 163 on 112 LC. Both cams work well. With the 218 we have seen 300 very usable street hp on 2275´s several times now, with only 1 bar of boost.
T |
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racoguy
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Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 687
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Alstrup wrote: |
Too much cam and turbo is too small (I think. I´m not 100% sure I know which one you are referring to)
Go Web 218 or 163 on 112 LC. Both cams work well. With the 218 we have seen 300 very usable street hp on 2275´s several times now, with only 1 bar of boost.
T |
Yeah the turbo is just little, off a Golf GTI / Audi A4
Runs out of steam at 5K on the Audi motor which is ok for what I want. |
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SRP1
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Joined: January 06, 2007
Posts: 4340
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Another vote for the 218 on this setup, good choice.... |
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racoguy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 687
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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218 on the 2024?
I've not seen it done before but I'm going to run the whole injection system from a DBW 2004 Golf, all sensors, crank trigger ign etc
Hence my main reason for the KO3 as the ECU is already mapped for it, may just need to adjust ign advance for the aircooled motor, but of a punt but could turn out to be a cheap way to run injection / turbo
Firing order is different too, 1342 instead of 1432 but that's easy to deal with. |
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7215
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Havent seen that done before. But I´m sure its possible with some knowhow around the system. But you will have to be able to cheat the system to run richer at WOT. But that can maybe be done with a reverse Xener Diode (?)
You have to remember that the ACVW engine needs to run a turbo that is slightly too large compared to a water cooled engine, or you WILL run into problems with overheating the cylinderheads. On a 2 liter engine A T3 turbo from a Saab 900 (except the low pressure 145 hp) or similar is considered the minimum.
T |
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racoguy
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Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 687
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Alstrup wrote: |
Havent seen that done before. But I´m sure its possible with some knowhow around the system. But you will have to be able to cheat the system to run richer at WOT. But that can maybe be done with a reverse Xener Diode (?)
You have to remember that the ACVW engine needs to run a turbo that is slightly too large compared to a water cooled engine, or you WILL run into problems with overheating the cylinderheads. On a 2 liter engine A T3 turbo from a Saab 900 (except the low pressure 145 hp) or similar is considered the minimum.
T |
Thanks for your info, the DBW (drive by wire) ME7 ECU is one of the most tuneable factory ecu's around in the watercooled world making it ideal for adapting to something else.
I mean why re invent the wheel..........bigger turbo's, injectors can all be compensated for as well as running maf' less tunes.
I didn't know about the turbo so knowing a T3 is the minimum will help a
lot, lucky for me a friend dismantles Saabs! 
How will that Saab turbo build boost? from what rpm?
The tiny KO3 will make boost from 1500rpm, remember that I'm only looking to run 10-12psi from this set up, not looking to make stacks of power |
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
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Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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That is VERY cam and system dependant. But say the 218 along with a 175 or 190 hp Saab turbo should begin to build boost at about 2000 rpm and probably be able to boost 12 psi at about 2700 rpm. or close to.
T |
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miniman82
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Joined: March 22, 2005
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Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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I pulled a T3 off a Saab and put it on my 1915 (thread below), it would spool hard as f*ck right around 3000 RPM. Best thing about using a T3 vs a little K03 is the larger turbine, you'll choke your engine if you go much over 4500 RPM with a K03.
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| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
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racoguy
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Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 687
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| miniman82 wrote: |
| I pulled a T3 off a Saab and put it on my 1915 (thread below), it would spool hard as f*ck right around 3000 RPM. Best thing about using a T3 vs a little K03 is the larger turbine, you'll choke your engine if you go much over 4500 RPM with a K03. |
I read you thread and you mentioned that there wasn't more than about 4psi in 1st / 2nd gear?
Which isn't really what I wanted, does that suggest your turbo is a little too big for your engine?
Could always go in between with a KO4 or a small AR T3, will have to see my Saab man and see what he has.
Alstrup some models years which have the right turbo would also be helpful if you wouldn't mind. |
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miniman82
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Joined: March 22, 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:01 am Post subject: |
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It's a question of gearing, I should have went with a 3.88 R&P but ended up with a 4.12 and small tires so the engine isn't really working hard till the top of 2nd/beginning of 3rd gear. If I can get some bigger tires it would help some, but I strongly suspect the stock wastegate on the turbo I had was worn out. It seemed lazy in the first 2 gears, and I never was able to get it working properly without an EBC. This time around it will have an external gate and a better turbo, so my hopes are high. If we can get the IC installed, I'm aiming for full 18 PSI runs next year. 
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| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
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racoguy
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Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 687
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Ok an update to this, went with a WebCam 218 112lc and gone for a K26 turbo from an Audi 5 cylinder.
Would like opinions on setting compression ratio, we have 98 octane RON fuel at the pump over here so was thinking 8:1? too high? too low? |
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
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Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:14 am Post subject: |
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If you do not want to boost hard 8-1 is fine.
T |
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racoguy
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Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 687
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:51 am Post subject: Re: Turbo cam help for 2024cc |
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With this motor up and running I've come up against some problems, the turbo is extremely laggy.
I'm running a 4.12 tranny and 195 50 16 tires, I fear the Audi K26 may just be too big for the job. The turbo is also just a pain bearing unit which probably isn't helping things either.
Im only wanting to run 10-12 psi so if this is too big then what do I go down to?
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madmike
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Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5292
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Turbo cam help for 2024cc |
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How's it run off Boost? I would of left the C45 in it and fit a T3/T4 hybrid 
but I'm a 'Gearhead'
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racoguy
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Location: new zealand
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clonebug
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Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 4027
Location: NW Washington
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Turbo cam help for 2024cc |
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| racoguy wrote: |
With this motor up and running I've come up against some problems, the turbo is extremely laggy.
I'm running a 4.12 tranny and 195 50 16 tires, I fear the Audi K26 may just be too big for the job. The turbo is also just a pain bearing unit which probably isn't helping things either.
Im only wanting to run 10-12 psi so if this is too big then what do I go down to? |
Try a Subaru WRX/Forester turbo.....MHI TD04L-13T Mine is from a 2002-2007 model.
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gprudenciop
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Joined: July 06, 2008
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Location: portland or
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Turbo cam help for 2024cc |
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Try a Subaru WRX/Forester turbo.....MHI TD04L-13T Mine is from a 2002-2007 model.
X2.
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Bugsy61
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Joined: March 20, 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Peoria, Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Turbo cam help for 2024cc |
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| Racoguy, I think you had it right the first time with the K03. In New Zealand, might be easier to get Audi/VW parts than Subaru parts, but you would know better than us. K03 makes 200 horsepower in Audi 2.0 engines, which certainly exceeds your goals if I'm reading you right, and should spool up quick. If it turns out to be to small, the typical German upgrade is a K04, and uses all the same flanges and fittings. They are available on eBay for $100, but don't know how painful the shipping charges will be. If all you want is 160 HP, you could probably get that with the stock cam, an Engle 100 or the Web 218, but switch turbos first and see how it runs. No reason to run a big cam unless you want upwards of 275 HP. |
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racoguy
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Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 687
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Turbo cam help for 2024cc |
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So I went and had a chat to an extremely expreienced turgo guy yesterday and he advised that my entire header is made wrong, not enough exhaust velocity to spool the turbo.
He feels the turbo is good for the size engine.
His comments were,
Primary pipes too long (about 1.5m total, possibly longer)
Primary pipe dia too large (38mm OD) advised 30mm ID pipe
Stainless (does not retain heat very well) advised ceramic wrap to retain heat
Collector ends too far before turbo ,advised collector right up to turbo
Collector pipe to turbo too large (2.5")
Looks like I have stuff to work on.....
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