Engine rebuild keep OG 40hp or upgrade to 1600cc?

[loosecaboose]

I have a `61 15 window red/ white splity. First time owner and want to keep the bus for the rest of my life. I had it for 3 years and it was running smoothly until last week, I busted a valve and now have to have my engine rebuilt. The two options are to rebuild the 40 hp engine I have now.
Pro: Less expensive, keeps the og charm and integrity, I know this engine
Con: Less power and am told less reliable

other option would be to replace it with a 1600cc bus engine from late 60's
Pro: More power and told much better all around engine, get a 12Volt system
Con: much more expensive, get a 12 volt system

WOuld the upgrade effect the transmission and reduction gears or wear add stress to the rest of my Bus?

I would be adding a doghouse to the 40hp if i go that route regardless.

[joe56vw]

a 40hp engine is no less reliable then a 1600 engine
you also can switch a 40hp engine to 12v system

the only real question between these two engine is the power difference
and that can only be answer by how do you want to drive your bus?

if you want more power for hills and to speed up quicker then go with a 1600
if you don't care about speed or climbing hills fast then rebuild the 40hp
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'60 15 window walkthrough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559931&highlight=

why is there no sarcasism button on here?

[durfeec]

And there are things you can do to your 40 hp to give it a little more umph and still keep it looking original. Buy some 83 mm big bore pistons. And an W100 or an equivalent. That is what i am doing with my bus to keep the 40 hp. Also get some 65 year heads and the matching intake. They have a slightly bigger intake and are stronger.

I vote to keep the 40 hp.
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1960 Bus Panel/Camper

[philermonic]

I've had two VW's. One was a stock 1200 '64 bug back in '74, and now I have a '62 Ghia. The Ghia is a 1383 (83mm "big bore") and a 30 pict and I have about 10 or 12k on it. Granted lighter vehicle, but it is the bomb! It wants to go much faster than I push it - I try to stay under 3500 rpm which is what I have at 70 mph. I've had it faster, briefly & accidentally, and it sounds fine even then. My bug back in the day I was much harder on....85+ for miles on end and the like. I salute German Engineering I guess!
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"A camel is a horse designed by a Committee"

[loosecaboose]

I was told by the mechanic that he would not rec to bore the 40hp OG engine to 83mm Big Bore because it weakens the engine. He said the most busted engines he sees are when they are big bore 40hp 1200cc. In fact, I find out tomorrow if my engine was an 83mm bored engine, he suspects it is.... So my decision if it is not a big bore is to keep the OG engine or if it turns out it is a big bore, i'll just go with a 1600cc engine single port replacement. Def no big bore 40hp though, I pref reliability over power, besides I'm in no hurry when cruisin in my bus

Comments are more than welcome as the order still hasn't been made cuz the guy is super backed up with work.

[joe56vw]

I think your "mechanic" might be smoking something

the only difference between a 40hp and a 1600 reliability wise is the 64mm cranks break easier
but that has nothing to do with being a big bore or not it has more to do with how it is driven


just curious why did you post this and have a poll done if you are going to go against all the advice given to you on here?
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'60 15 window walkthrough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559931&highlight=

why is there no sarcasism button on here?

[pyrOman]

Keeping it for life,eh?

Much like I do with my vehicles. I'd start with a new case and build at least a 1776 with a 100 cam. Can be made to look exactly like a 40 horser, single porter even, and will have plenty of power and torque to push the bus with ease. The casual lookyloo won't know unless you tell him what's inside it.
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Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise.

[Clara]

I don't see any less reliability with the 40hp.

FWIW, my Dad bought a 63 truck with a big bore 40hp. He sometimes doesn't like to shift gears, and will push each end of the range, taking 4th gear really slow, or 2nd gear real high. You know, not dropping from 3rd when going round a corner. Just how he does. He drove it around for about ten to twelve years (not his only car). Eventually it was less peppy, he'd have to change gears sooner going over Hwy 17. Then he got a new motor, and gave me the worn out 40hp. I stripped it to a short block, a retorqued it (head nuts were loose oddly enough), new oil seals, and put about 4k miles on it in my kombi. Then took it out of my 66 kombi, and put it in a 63 with little nuts. WAYYYY more power with a little nut tranny. Went like a bat out of hell. The guy who we sold the 63 was very pleased when he got the bus.

That engine just kept going.

I had a 40hp in another bus, it got 28mpg.
40hp bus mufflers are available NOS cheap.

If you want more oomph, get a bigger motor.
Speed costs. how fast do you want to go?

If the 40hp is the original engine, do keep hold of it and the original parts on it, even if you run a bigger motor.
If you do go for a post 40hp motor, get a later alloy case, not one from the late 60s. Dual relief and later alloy.

There is no real advantage to 12V, except modern radio and cell phone chargers.
It costs more to swap over to 12V.
The transmission does not mind, FWIW.

[SkooobaSteve]

Cell chargers will work on 6v, the charger only uses 5volts. Same with GPS's and most other acc plug in stuff.
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Jonathan
Romans 6:13
WTB 67 beetle rear seat belts.
59 Euro ragtop build with my dad
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=493553&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
65 dlx Slow build
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=391061

[crofty]

[Malokin Martin]

Numbers matching =keep the 40
Random case = 1600 sp doghouse

[Braukuche]

[crofty]

[Braukuche]

[Clara]

[crofty]

[Riff Raff]

I too have a 61 15 window with original engine.
I recommend you procure a good used 1600 to run in your bus.
Tuck the 40 horse away in a safe, dry corner.

Not only will you have more jam and enhanced drivability with the 1600, you stand no chance of putting a rod through the block of you original to the bus engine.
A bullet 15 window is a desireable bus.
An original engine is both a strong selling feature and increases the intrinsic value of your bus, so I see nothing but advantages to running a bigger engine and saving your original.
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The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin

[loosecaboose]

OK, so my mechanic pulled the engine and said it is def an old 40hp that would have come with this bus originally, but htat there is no way of telling if it actually was the same engine. Any ideas on finding that out? Still haven't checked to see if it has been big bored.

@RiffRaff and ANYONE else. I'm not intending to sell my bus ever, but you do bring up an interesting point about keeping the 40hp motor while upgrading to a 1600cc -best of both. Now would this value incentive apply if the og engine was bored and is now an 83mm 40hp or has that ruined the value and integrity of the og motor? (And yes, she's a very desirable bus -I love mine)

I'm pretty certain I'm sticking with a 6V system simply because part of the charm of driving a `61 is the adventures it creates and sometimes yes, i have to sacrifice comfort or a jump start from a 12V to get that. My bus is for traveling through space and time SO please, I'm interested in the Volt conversion if it pertains to the reliability of the the engine. That said, my 6V system was also a spiderweb of hacks. Btw, does a `61 have a 3-pronged or 4-pronged flasher originally?

Thanks everyone for the input, I understadn there is a culture surrounding VW and as I'm a newbie, this is how I learn what it is.

[joe56vw]

[Braukuche]