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KentABQ Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 2406 Location: Albuquerque NM
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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He made a harness for me in February, so he should still be around. Maybe he's swamped at the moment, but give him time. He's a great person to work with. _________________ -Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM |
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andrewtf Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2011 Posts: 604 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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He just made a harness for me.
I got the email just yesterday that it was shipped and he provided the tracking number. It should arrive today. _________________ '75 Riviera - 'BIG EMMA' (Pan American highway trip paused for a make over)
'77 Riviera - Murphy' (being reborn.... slowly)
'63 Austin Healey |
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surfbus23 Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2016 Posts: 383
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
Wire qualith will depend on how you like to work. For instance with the D-Jet harnesses I have built...instead of using 3 diiferent but very similar wire gauges to be exactly like factory...I used a single wire gauge in the middle of the three. The up-to-date modern wire has lower resistance and cleaner signal than any of the three sizes of stock copper.
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Would 16AWG be appropriate our should I be making sure to go 18AWG? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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surfbus23 wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
Wire qualith will depend on how you like to work. For instance with the D-Jet harnesses I have built...instead of using 3 diiferent but very similar wire gauges to be exactly like factory...I used a single wire gauge in the middle of the three. The up-to-date modern wire has lower resistance and cleaner signal than any of the three sizes of stock copper.
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Would 16AWG be appropriate our should I be making sure to go 18AWG? |
16 gauge is pretty heavy. I would go with 18 gauge. Even 20 gauge would be fine for EFI.
Bear in mind that gauge is a meaure of conductor diameter....not total wire diameter. 16 gauge is a fat wire. Even 24 gauge is quite common in MODERN EFI.
Really you need to be aure what fits the terminals you are crimping to. They have a range they operate with. 18-20 gauge is good.
I use 16 gauge for power wires but only in Teflon coated because the jacket is thinner. Ray
Last edited by raygreenwood on Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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surfbus23 Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2016 Posts: 383
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:02 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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Sweet. Thanks Ray! Will go for the 20AWG then. |
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Gregg in the 603 Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2013 Posts: 404 Location: New Hampshire, USA
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12728 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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Can we make a list of the components that are polarity specific, and those that aren't?
I'd guess that the AAR, TTS, and throttle body switch would be swappable… I ask, because I'm dissecting a problematic stock harness right now, and one injector plug is reversed from the other four, but nothing looks to have been tampered with.
Thanks,
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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the wiring diagram here should give you what you need https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/afc_f...Manual.pdf _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12728 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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I’ve got that printed out and handy, but it is not specific to how the wires are inserted into the plugs. It has been discussed before, but I think it would be nice to have all that infinite here in case anybody else’s harness is so gone that wires can’t be traced. (Like mine here! Most of the wires have physically cracked through the copper so they can no longer be tested for continuity. )
Robbie
_________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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asiab3 wrote: |
Can we make a list of the components that are polarity specific, and those that aren't?
I'd guess that the AAR, TTS, and throttle body switch would be swappable… I ask, because I'm dissecting a problematic stock harness right now, and one injector plug is reversed from the other four, but nothing looks to have been tampered with.
Thanks,
Robbie |
Even those that seem to be simple two wire that are not polarity specific.....you should put in the proper order...so you can trouble shoot between ECU and component by wire number.
Also while the part its connected to may not be polarity specific...say like a TS-2 two wire which is just a simple resistor....what and how its connected to items on the ECU board may need a specific order so I would keep everything dead on to the wiring diagram. Ray |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12728 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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Ok, so according to this wiring diagram, how should the injector wires be plugged in?
_________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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Thats easy. By the way....They are directional only for wiring diagram use. Solenoids you can switch around....on the injector end. But they are signal signal to ground or ground signal to + in this case.
The + is supplied through the resistor pack. Its ganged
which is fine....because they all fire at one time.
But.....thinking in that direction....ganged...and no need for polarity some would just ask then why is the ground (which is signal side) from the ECU...not just a ganged ground as well? Why four wires....14, 15, 32, 33?
Its because the signal driver may or may not handle the load of all four injectors. Thats why I noted....unless you know whats going on....on the "board"....dont go changing things around.
But the reason they even make many injectors with a +/-...is simply to force you to connect them one way.....for troubleshooting and wire tracing.
While its clear with this design you could swap any of the ECU/signal side wires around witjout causing an issue....why would you? Then you would have to rewrite a wiring diagram to show the next owner where you moved all the wires to.
Unless you aren't numbering your new harness wires at all.....in that case.....never mind....carry on!
By the way....there are SOME solenoid injectors....none used on VW....that DO need to have correct polarity. They are old and large and are magnetic plunger type. Ours are not like that.
Ray |
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jgilchrist Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2014 Posts: 5 Location: Cardiff
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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Just bought a new Kyle harness. Looks good but why doesn't he use the boots that are available around the connectors?
Looking at Tcash data I can see the 7-pin AFM connector and the 2-position boots on Digi-Key. The 2-pos boot is part of the "Superseal" line and two others are listed but NOT the 7-postion boot (if there is one).
Anyone?
Jeff Gilchrist _________________ Jeff Gilchrist |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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I thought Kyle did use new boots. That would be weird not to. Napa has them too. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3555 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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asiab3 wrote: |
Ok, so according to this wiring diagram, how should the injector wires be plugged in? |
Rule of thumb: if it isn't labeled, then it's most likely not critical. On injectors, I'd go with majority rule: make the oddball one match the others.
The thermo-time switch is super-critical! Get it backwards and you burn a trace off the ECU board (yeah, it's repairable...)
I built my harness using 18 AWG. In retrospect, next time I'd use 20 AWG. Some of the small 0.110 terminals hold two wires. While I could get two in, it wasn't very pretty. Or, you could go mixed-mode: 18 AWG on the high current stuff (power, injectors, AAR valve) and 20 AWG on everything else. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:07 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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telford dorr wrote: |
asiab3 wrote: |
Ok, so according to this wiring diagram, how should the injector wires be plugged in? |
Rule of thumb: if it isn't labeled, then it's most likely not critical. On injectors, I'd go with majority rule: make the oddball one match the others.
The thermo-time switch is super-critical! Get it backwards and you burn a trace off the ECU board (yeah, it's repairable...)
I built my harness using 18 AWG. In retrospect, next time I'd use 20 AWG. Some of the small 0.110 terminals hold two wires. While I could get two in, it wasn't very pretty. Or, you could go mixed-mode: 18 AWG on the high current stuff (power, injectors, AAR valve) and 20 AWG on everything else. |
Definately agree on the wire gauge...eapecially with clean modern wire with better than 1974-79 insulation. 20 gauge works vreat....really....for pretty much all of it. Ray |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12728 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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SGKent wrote: |
I thought Kyle did use new boots. That would be weird not to. Napa has them too. |
Kyle's harness uses rubber (maybe silicone?) inserts around each wire in each plug. So while you can't see any boots, the sealing effect is there, and a better seal anyway. VW uses these kinds of seals on new stuff still to this day.
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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asiab3 wrote: |
SGKent wrote: |
I thought Kyle did use new boots. That would be weird not to. Napa has them too. |
Kyle's harness uses rubber (maybe silicone?) inserts around each wire in each plug. So while you can't see any boots, the sealing effect is there, and a better seal anyway. VW uses these kinds of seals on new stuff still to this day.
Robbie |
Yes...those can be either "made" by using silicone pumped in from the outside....it works....but is rather "GM-ish"....or there are plug housing part numbers that have silicone or rubber "stuffers" ...for lack of a better word....available that pop into the cavities behind the wires.
I think they are a good enough seal.....though I would not call them a better seal than a boot. I think they were developed for some of the junior timer series plug bodies that did not have a groove to retain a boot. I think they were then used by others because they were cheaper than sourcing a boot.
The problem with the stuffer blocks alone is that if the wires move around a lot...get pulled or pushed...the wire works the rubber stuffers loose and they pop out. So on one hand ...the 1980's"GM-ish" habit of pumping goo into the back of plug bodies around the wires works better as a seal...but it makes a cruddy job of replacing a plug body or a connector end. Ray |
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otiswesty Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006 Posts: 1731 Location: Portland
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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I added Digikey boots to my Kyle harness before I installed it. _________________ 1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab
Just a regular guy |
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78BusGA Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2017 Posts: 315 Location: Buford, Georgia
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:30 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild Your FI wiring harness for less than $50 |
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As I will be soon beginning to gather parts for my bus and evaluating systems, what should I look for in engine performance or system function that would tell me if I need a new harness? Or it is just a physical thing that plastic and rubber is just deteriorated and unsafe?
The bus has been in storage for 16+ years, though I have driven it once for trial in the past two(up and back on the street three driveways), and it has idled nicely around the same, before some of the fuel vapor system hose sections gave out. I know I will have to pull and clean every electrical terminal on the bus anyhow. _________________ Few will understand the passion and majesty, among the nuts and grease.
Tom H.
My '74 Super 1303 thread - https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764902&start=60
My '78 Kombi Bus thread - https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=769385&highlight=
'72 Superbeetle (retired), '78 Bus Kombi 2.0FI, '74 1303 Superbeetle |
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