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Bigger Front Speaker Install
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geodude
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Bigger Front Speaker Install Reply with quote

I replaced my stock, blown speakers awhile ago with 4" Polks that were great, but still really small. I've been wanting to upgrade to larger speakers upfront, but it seems all the available speakers I could find had grills that were way to tall and didn't fit. So this is what I did. I got some 5.25" Pioneer TS-D1302R speakers (on sale at Amazon) and mounted them to the back of the door card with a spacer and used the stock grill. The grill mesh was much larger than the stock speaker cone and was almost exactly the same diameter as the pioneers cones.

Here is a comparison of the stock speaker, the 4" Polk, and the new 5.25" Pioneers. Look how much bigger that magnet is than stock.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


To mount the speaker I made a spacer ring out of high density fiber board, which I countersunk four holes in for four screws that act as studs.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The ring was epoxied to the door panel.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The speaker was then fastened to the studs.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Reinstalled panel on door and it looks all stock, sounds good and no clearance problems.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The ring gets close to the door so you want to keep it just wide enough to clear the speaker mounting lugs. Otherwise this was a really simply mod, works great so far, and the improvement in sound is really worth it. [/img]
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simd0ggie
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice job Very Happy, now add the boss sub, boss..
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=532901&highlight=speaker+install+easy
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geodude
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Already got the sub under the seat Very Happy, but there still seemed to be a gap between where the 4" speaker quit and the sub picked up. With the new 5.25" speakers there doesn't seem to be that gap going from mid to bass. Next up bigger rears.
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Robw_z
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're my hero! I've always thought this was the right way to do it, but have not taken a step toward it myself.

Do the speakers sound muffled at all? I've always thought 5.25" slightly muffled speaker > 4" speaker fully open but still wonder.

The big question is how do you cut perfect circles? I got an attachment for my dremel to do it but have not purchased the necessary cutting bit.

-Rob
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geodude
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No muffling at all; the mesh on the stock grill is slightly larger than the width of the cone of the new speaker. Only a small bit of the surround gets masked, so no muffling. They sound great.

The way I cut my circles was to first get circles drawn on paper. Then I used some glue and stuck the paper to the piece of high density fiber board. Then I rough cut with my jigsaw near the line and finished up by sanding up to the line. They don't need to be perfect just pretty close so they clear the surround of the speaker. It also helped to have a spindle sander, but you could do it with your dremel with a sanding wheel.
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onemat
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks much for the description and pictures. I am going to do my speaker install over...
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jrunberg
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Dave.
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Love My Westy
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is how I did my 4" speakers that have a tweeter that sticks out too far:

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I was able to use my original speaker grills.
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Summers420us
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger Front Speaker Install Reply with quote

geodude wrote:
Reinstalled panel on door and it looks all stock, sounds good and no clearance problems.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


What are the speaker grills from? Are these OEM from later model? If so, what year?
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Greystar
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sure looks better than hacking another hole in the bottom of the door! How wide is the spacer, 1/4 inch?
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rubbachicken
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

does anyone have a picture of the inside of the door on their speaker installs
i'm 10k miles from lucy i need/want bigger speakers on the front and back.
but i think i'd want to move the center of the speaker out from the dash, i'd be happy to make a bigger hole in the door card, to have the speaker less muffled by the dash
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geodude
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The spacer is about 1/4" thick. Just thick enough to countersink and hold the screws securely, so not a critical dimension.

The grills are from the stock speakers that came on my 90 Carat. I've seen a bunch for sale in the classifieds here. You cut the speaker off to get the grill. I would expect 1988-1991 models are your target, Wolfies, Carats, etc.

There is room to move the speaker toward the rear of the existing, just not vertically. I didn't want to cut into the door card as I would have to come up with a new grill. 2/3 of the speaker is exposed and it sounds good so was alright with it.

Hi, John
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geo_tonz
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rubbachicken wrote:
does anyone have a picture of the inside of the door on their speaker installs
i'm 10k miles from lucy i need/want bigger speakers on the front and back.
but i think i'd want to move the center of the speaker out from the dash, i'd be happy to make a bigger hole in the door card, to have the speaker less muffled by the dash


Sorry they're sideways. Damn iPhone doesn't let you edit the pictures very easily... and yes the tape measure is upside down as I was holding it with my left hand.

First one I measured from the hole for the corner door card clip:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And the dimensions of the hole:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some questions:
Typically, what's the deepest a speaker can be before the magnet grinds on the inside of the door?
How is the inner (trim) door panel removed without boogering the panel?
Are the door panel fasteners reusable or do new ones need to found (if so, where)?
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randywebb
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the cone needs to be spaced away from the door panel so that is really the limiting factor

you also want a pad behind the speaker - Cascade Audio sells them IIRC


and... if you want to get HiFi then do NOˇ mount the speaker to a floppy door card - to avoid time smear mount it to something rigid

OTOH, it's just a car
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randywebb
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the cone needs to be spaced away from the door panel so that is really the limiting factor

you also want a pad behind the speaker - Cascade Audio sells them IIRC


and... if you want to get HiFi then do NOˇ mount the speaker to a floppy door card - to avoid time smear mount it to something rigid

OTOH, it's just a car
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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume the double post is because the post is in stereo? ;-P

I think I'm confused - I can see putting something behind the magnet. A bit of some kind of foam should do it. Is the pad you mention used for that reason?

"Cone spaced away from the door panel" - you got me on that one. Obviously, if the cone hits anything, that's very bad, but past that concern...???
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geo_tonz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RBEmerson wrote:
"Cone spaced away from the door panel" - you got me on that one. Obviously, if the cone hits anything, that's very bad, but past that concern...???


That is the concern. Attaching a speaker that's larger than the stock hole will mean it will either be pressed against the door card, muffling the sound and hindering the cone movement, or will touch the door card with normal operation and buzz or be muffled. There's another picture of an install somewhere on the samba where you can see the cone is pressed against the door card which would ruin the performance/sound. Putting in a spacer frees up the action of the cone but also pushed the back of the speaker (magnet) toward the outer sheet metal. There would need to be sufficient clearance or a bit of foam damping between the magnet and the outer sheet metal or it would buzz and rattle like crazy, and/or push the door card out in a bubble and skin your knuckles winding the window.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the major concern. In addition, for HiFi you don't want the sound wave from the rear to 'mess up' the speaker. That is why they sell the special pads to go behind the speaker too.

OTOH, it's only car sound...
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DeadSetMonkey
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

randywebb wrote:
smear mount it to something rigid

What does that mean?
"smear mount?"
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