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Beau Palmer
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Z-Bed Hinges Question... Reply with quote

Hey, I don't know if this has been mentioned or not (it's a long post) but I have a zbed in my 79 and there are two bolts that install from the top (right up against the back angled wall) that regulate how far down the top of the back rest may descend, it serves to make the metal deck/soft seat connection as accurate and as comfortable as possible. Could it be that you just need to screw those bolts in some to make the seat back sit lower?
I hope that helps and that I'm not being redundant.
Thanks for all your help, gentlemen,
Beau
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matt94gt
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimneyfish wrote:
Very good and concise video here of fitting a Delmar reproduction Z-bed kit, it's done on a split bus but the principle and procedure are exactly the same:


Link


Thanks, it looks like I will need a rock and roll bed to have the length and comfort I am after for longer trips. Now the 3/4 rock and roll bed, vs the westy bench is there a big difference, when folded down? I could find a westy bench quite easily.
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chimneyfish
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good and concise video here of fitting a Delmar reproduction Z-bed kit, it's done on a split bus but the principle and procedure are exactly the same:


Link

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matt94gt
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So im finally at the stage where Im shopping for my bed.

I want to get some cabinets in my bus, so the issue is using the rear full width seat wont allow this, my plan was to use a z-bed kit on the middle seat. Is his possible? Im looking at the Del Mar kit. Id rather not go rock and roll bed as I want to use my existing seats.

Is the rock and roll bed wider then using a z-bed? It looks like they have a lot more length (pics below).

This is what I am trying to accomplish:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Could I do this with the middle seat, with a z-kit on it?

I imagine the middle seat is the same width as your 3/4 length rock and roll bed?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimneyfish wrote:


Kevin, is that a stock bracket rotated 180, and are those double set angled hold downs supplied by Delmar or did you make them yourself? They look a decent set up, better than the original Z ones pictured above.


Yes. The supplied seat bracket didn't work with my 73 seat- the spacing on the holes was a little off (and I traded some emails and pics with the Delmar guys about it) so just used the stock brackets. Yes those angled hold downs are from the kit. I really can't say enough about the workmanship of the parts and the willingness of the Delmar folks to answer questions.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mranker wrote:
You will have to add some padding to make it comfortable.


x2 on that, when going camping, I carry a Coleman double air bed with dual air chamber and 12 volt air pump. It fits perfectly on the made bed, like it was made for it, pumps up fast and packs away small and neat. You do not want to sleep on the stock padding, from bitter experience I can tell you now that it is a killer on your back, I mean REALLY BAD on your back, without a proper mattress or air bed.
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jtauxe
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
jtauxe wrote:
I don't like it. The one in the '79 I got looks like the one in the above photos. but when it is in the seat position, it sits too high, and the back is too far forward. Not comfortable.

I just spent 3 hours at Austin VeeDub pulling out the original hardware for a rear seat, so that I can revert it to stock.

By the way, about 6 bay window buses have disappeared from Austin VeeDub since I was there this spring. Apparently someone is buying the old hulks. Their stock of aircooled vehicles is diminishing.


John - Lift the bottom seat up and then backwards and down to the seat position. It is in the forward up position in the photo.

In the position it is in WHICH IS THE BED POSITION, the upright seat portion of the seat back is supposed to sit down in like on mine making a bed. Whoever took the photo took the seat bottom in the bed position and the seat back in a haven't put it down yet position.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Yup. Mine looks just like that and works just like that. And, yes, the seat back goes down all the way flat. Ish. Is your final bed as lumpy as mine? Smile I see you have a matress on it -- that would help a lot, I can see.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt94gt wrote:
chimneyfish wrote:
Best ask an original Z-bed owner on that one. There are several parts, so you need to make sure it is all there


Thanks for the links. Im hoping someone will chime in, the z-bed is complete with all mounts and brackets. Im just wondering the quality and fitment, as the others seem to be adjustable height to make it perfectly level. I dont mind spending the extra and doing it right the first time. But if a z-bed is fine, then I can put that money elsewhere.


I've been using my original Z-bed for camping for years. I've never seen a del mar kit in person but from the pictures it looks like a slightly beefier version of the same set up. The key to buying the original z-bed is to make sure all the pieces are there or you'll end up having to fabricate your own. The bed is adjustable to make it as level as possible but it will never be perfectly level nor will the del mar bed because you're using the stock seat which is not level in the horizontal position. You will have to add some padding to make it comfortable. If all you're going to do is camp get a camper. But if you want to keep your stock 8 seater and also be able to camp get the Z-bed/del mar etc. $50 is a good price if its complete.
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matt94gt
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimneyfish wrote:
Best ask an original Z-bed owner on that one. There are several parts, so you need to make sure it is all there


Thanks for the links. Im hoping someone will chime in, the z-bed is complete with all mounts and brackets. Im just wondering the quality and fitment, as the others seem to be adjustable height to make it perfectly level. I dont mind spending the extra and doing it right the first time. But if a z-bed is fine, then I can put that money elsewhere.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best ask an original Z-bed owner on that one. There are several parts, so you need to make sure it is all there:

Have you read these threads? This one Karl put up the instructions, including a list of all the parts on the original Z products kit:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214427

In this thread by aircooledchris his pictures of a NOS Z-bed install have disappeared, which would have been handy for you, maybe message him for an opinion:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5217106
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did just run into a local z-bed I can get for $50 but now reluctant if I should use that and save some cash or invest in one of the aftermarket kits.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My seat when upright sits flush where it used to prior to the Z-hinges install (actually a few millimeters higher than stock due to the base plates on the hinges lifting everything slightly, but the securing brackets have enough adjustment for that).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I got hold of some original Z-products clips for the rear seat when up, I was not impressed by their construction, very tinny, and could break apart in a collision in my opinion, plus as already discussed I also felt they pushed the seat to far forward:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So I used the original brackets, a lot more substantial, as in the picture below, they lined up nicely, but again, this picture was taken directly after install. I have since installed some butterfly bolts where they screw into the seat frame (M6 I think from memory) for ease of undoing the seat for bed use quickly as possible (and have a small bag to keep the bits in when camping, last thing you want to do is lose the securing parts).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Butterfly bolt:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


kevinj73us wrote:
With the delmar kit the seat back is actually forward from stock about an inch and a half when raised.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Kevin, is that a stock bracket rotated 180, and are those double set angled hold downs supplied by Delmar or did you make them yourself? They look a decent set up, better than the original Z ones pictured above.
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matt94gt
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats not too bad, 4 bolts. How did you like the brackets and seat position when up, and folded? Install difficulty? Do you have pictures of the hinge portion that causes the back to fold, just curious how it looks in your setup.

Im wondering if I can some how rig up some cabinets without drilling through the floor. But thats a completely different topic.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt94gt wrote:
Excellent, are there many holes you have to cut/drill in your panels or floor? That sounds perfect. Smile


I hate drilling holes in these old buses, but you will drill a lot less and cause less change compared to installing a camper interior.

I understand that the original 1970's Z-products used some self tappers, but I struggled with that concept and safety implications in a collision. VW locked their seats down with M10 threads. After wrestling with the idea, I went with the M10 decision.

For the Camperstuff repro kit, I drilled four fixings per hinge, using M10x35mm zinc plated bolts, washers, and nuts with a nylon lock, plus a square plate underneath the bus. I doubt it will ever happen, but in theory M10 holes can easily be welded, ground down and sprayed over if someone ever wanted to totally reverse what has been done.

I also used two M6 nuts, bolts and washers on each cradle to secure the seat bases to them.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I later swapped the bolts for stainless steel M10x40 Allen head button bolts, which are more friendly to the toes.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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matt94gt
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent, are there many holes you have to cut/drill in your panels or floor? That sounds perfect. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the delmar kit the seat back is actually forward from stock about an inch and a half when raised.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There is some adjustment you can make to minimize the difference in height between the seat and the cargo area. You still definitely want some sort of pad to cover the whole area (seat and cargo area) for comfort.

I'm 6'1" and there is plenty of length in the cargo shelf plus seat back and seat bottom. You can see how much space there is in some of my other gallery photos.

You will have to drill for the delmar kit.

kj
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:25 am    Post subject: Z-Bed aftermarket hinges Reply with quote

So Im looking at adding a z-bed to my bus. There are two aftermarket hinges you can get:

http://www.delmarretro.com/Work.html
http://www.camperstuff.co.uk/Site/Micro_bed.html

From the looks of pics it seems the factory z-bed and camperstuff z-bed are pretty darn reclined when in the upright position, has anyone used the delmarretro kit, it looks like it sits a bit more upright.

As well in the down position it seems there (z-bed) not quite flush with the rear of the bus, more down so your bed would slope.

My plan is to have a foamy that will cover the rear area and extend onto the z-bed. Now how long is this space? I might have to extend it as I've seen some people do, I am 6'1. My plan is to have the foam cut in two pieces, so when the z-bed is in the upright position I can stack both foamys in the rear so there not in the way. Now my only concern with this is them sliding around but Im sure I can find a way to have them velcro together or something. Or the zipper idea above is genius.

Right now there is a makeshift bed which is great, but I want to put some storage in and it will limit that as well I want to have the ability to carry more then 2 people in the bus if needed.

Ive been debating putting a 71 westy setup in my bus (minus sink unit), but people on here have discouraged me from that fact as my 72 is 95% original and I assume I'd have to cut and drill some holes.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The versatility of the basic T2 never ceases to amaze me.


x2
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
When we had the 1971 I used it to haul more than 4 people at times so I made the pad so it had a fabric hinge in it with a zipper. I could unzip one side and flip it over into a double pad that sat behind the seat.


Brilliant idea. Thinking on that idea, you could make a 3/4 pad, and a 1/4 size pad, so as to fit around a spare wheel. Our bus is used as a bus the majority of the time. The two or three times we do use it for camping in a year, we have a decent size drive-away tent awning, and I pull out the spare tyre and cover, and put them under the rear bumper, and carry another flat piece of wood just big enough to cover the spare tyre well for the airbed, a bit of a PITA I know, but the bus is not a camper so I just have to improvise and deal with it. The versatility of the basic T2 never ceases to amaze me.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimneyfish wrote:
I have the repro kit of the Z hinges supplied by www.camperstuff.co.uk :

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


They supply this slot-in support bracket with the repro kit, although they say using it is optional? It helps support the rear bench seat back support where it lines up with the rear shelf when the seat is down, to form the bed (some bays come with a slot that it fits into (Kombi bodies I think?), whilst the late Microbus body doesn't, mine is the latter, so I fabricated a thin steel bar, and used the existing factory threaded holes behind there too fix it. If off camping, I also throw in a 2'ft piece of 3"x1" wood, which I slide on top of the supplied slot-in bracket for even more extra support:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You guys with the original Z product, do you have to do something similar? Without some support in the centre there, I find if you place to much weight on where the top of the backrest lines up with the rear shelf, the backrest can slip down a couple of inches. There is a lot of scope for adjustment on the repro kit, so maybe I just need to fiddle about with the adjustments some more (although the aforementioned bracket does the trick nicely for me).

I like Steve's set up of a nice comfortable mattress (and the matching Z curtain rails are totally cool), but have the bus in it's 8 seater layout most of the time, so we use a Coleman double air bed mattress with two air compartments which is great, trying to sleep on the stock seats with no mattres is not recommended, it is a killer on your back.


When we had the 1971 I used it to haul more than 4 people at times so I made the pad so it had a fabric hinge in it with a zipper. I could unzip one side and flip it over into a double pad that sat behind the seat. The spare was on the nose then, something I will not do now due to age of the buses and cost to restore them.
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