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LED Turn Signal Indicators(Green Arrows) not working
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MarkG70
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: LED Turn Signal Indicators(Green Arrows) not working Reply with quote

Hello! I am new to posting on this website but I have been visiting this website after I purchased a 1970 T2 Campmobile in 2001. The engine is a 1600DP. The problem I am currently experiencing is when the ignition is on the turn signal indicators(Green Arrows) do not work when the left or right turn signals are engaged or the emergency switch is turned on. The brake/turnsignal lights and front yellow indicator lights function well, just not the green arrows on the dash. The only time the signal indicators(green arrows) on the dash work is when the emergency switch is turned on and the ignition is not on. I recently changed the flasher relay. It seems like the KBL signal is not going to ground. Thank you for all the feedback!!
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a 1970 but looking at the wiring diagram in technical here for a 1970, it looks like there is a separate wire that comes directly off the relay J2 that goes to those two lights. It also looks like they pull power from S4 (4th fuse) maybe. If the outside lights flash then that relay should be sending a signal to the lights in the dash. If they work when the hazards flash but not when the turn signals are on, you might want to look closely at the relay and bulbs to be sure they are the correct ones. Click the image twice to expand it.

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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your fuel gauge and idiot lights already work attach Kbl to 49a with a piggyback connector, if none of the lights or gauge work find the bad fuse first.
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sped372
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
If your fuel gauge and idiot lights already work attach Kbl to 49a with a piggyback connector, if none of the lights or gauge work find the bad fuse first.

x2. Kbl often goes bad first even if the main functionality is fine.
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soissisc
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same problem on my 68. Busdaddy mentioned that in later models the wiring was updated to this approach. Anyway, my 68 has been fine running this year 1 yr plus.
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MarkG70
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the feedback! I attached KBL to 49A as suggested. Worked fine!!
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asiab3
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thansk for following through with what worked for you. This thread is helkping me figure out the troubles in my late '69 too, so thanks again!
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkG70 wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback! I attached KBL to 49A as suggested. Worked fine!!


So that means the J2 relay is bad if I understand the issue.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
MarkG70 wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback! I attached KBL to 49A as suggested. Worked fine!!


So that means the J2 relay is bad if I understand the issue.

Part of it, 9 terminal relays used on 68/69 and some 4 terminal units have a separate set of contacts for the dash arrows and it's possible that they can fail when the rest of it still works (likely due to the low resistance of the circuit and corrosion on the contacts), Kbl to 49a achieves the same result without the added mechanisms. The only difference is the arrows light opposite to the outside lights instead of simutaniously, VW did the same thing in 71.
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asiab3
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
SGKent wrote:
MarkG70 wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback! I attached KBL to 49A as suggested. Worked fine!!


So that means the J2 relay is bad if I understand the issue.

Part of it, 9 terminal relays used on 68/69 and some 4 terminal units have a separate set of contacts for the dash arrows and it's possible that they can fail when the rest of it still works (likely due to the low resistance of the circuit and corrosion on the contacts), Kbl to 49a achieves the same result without the added mechanisms. The only difference is the arrows light opposite to the outside lights instead of simutaniously, VW did the same thing in 71.


Would that be safe to run like that for extended periods?
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
SGKent wrote:
MarkG70 wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback! I attached KBL to 49A as suggested. Worked fine!!


So that means the J2 relay is bad if I understand the issue.

Part of it, 9 terminal relays used on 68/69 and some 4 terminal units have a separate set of contacts for the dash arrows and it's possible that they can fail when the rest of it still works (likely due to the low resistance of the circuit and corrosion on the contacts), Kbl to 49a achieves the same result without the added mechanisms. The only difference is the arrows light opposite to the outside lights instead of simutaniously, VW did the same thing in 71.


Would that be safe to run like that for extended periods?

Yes, instead of a separate switched ground it's using the resistance of the rest of the bulbs in the circuit as a ground between flashes, VW did it from 71 and up so apparently there's no long term issues.
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sped372
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding is that the KBL was actually designed to 'drop out' when the draw from the main circuit was too low. The intent was to alert you that one of your bulbs was burnt out by causing the dash light to not flash. No harm not using it but you have to admit it's a clever idea.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sped372 wrote:
My understanding is that the KBL was actually designed to 'drop out' when the draw from the main circuit was too low. The intent was to alert you that one of your bulbs was burnt out by causing the dash light to not flash. No harm not using it but you have to admit it's a clever idea.

First I've heard of that but I can't say it's impossible, when a bulb is out that side usually blinks crazy fast or stays on steady and that's a good way to tell.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
... when a bulb is out that side usually blinks crazy fast...


and I thought it was just a driver who drank too much coffee... Laughing
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sped372
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It took quite a bit of searching but I found something referencing this function. I am pretty sure I read it someplace else also but can't seem to find it.

http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/4-term.htm

It makes sense if you think about it. There's no real reason to add a separate terminal on the relay for the dash light unless it would have done something that 49a couldn't do (flashing alternate to the outside lights doesn't seem like it's worth the extra trouble). VW probably removed it as they cost-reduced through the early 70's.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going to resurrect this post cause it seems to be my problem on my 70 Ghia. Are you saying run a wire, using piggyback connectors on both, between KBL and 49a on the flasher J2 itself?

Not between KBL on the flasher and 49a on the emergency flasher switch, E3?
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Brian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically. The lights are on a positive ground
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do both green arrows flash, No matter which direction left or right on the interior soignal switch ?.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, at least VW gave earlier bay owners 2 arrows, splits and bugs have just one green light.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian wrote:
Basically. The lights are on a positive ground
".

So just to be clear - I run a wire between KBL and 49a on the flasher?

And what the heck is a positive ground?

I'm just learning this electrical crap, bear with me please!
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