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Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread
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66brm
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

The cb linkage kits are normally supplied with a spacer for running with non offset manifolds like you have on your t4
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Interesting! Thanks for that, I just went back to the website I bought the kit from and there is no mention of it. Nor was there anything referring to it in the instructions. They only sell the none offset manifolds for the type 4, no listing for offset ones.

This fix looks like it will work but the heim joint thread was just long enough to get the nut on 1 1/2 threads with the spacer on it so I will have to keep a very close eye on it in case it backs off.

I really need to move the cross bar forward an inch on the left side, an inch and a half on the right side and both sides down an inch to line up properly. That would involve adding on to the existing brackets on the air cleaner bases.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Hi guys , so from all that reading on this post I still cant decide to put Duals on my stock dual port 1600cc with single 34pict solex or not ? Seems like a lot of headache ! Whats your opinion ? I want a trouble free engine that keep up with traffic .
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

That's a personal choice depending on what you want from your Buggy and how much you enjoy tinkering with it. Just changing the carbs will not turn it into a barn burner, it's a relatively small gain.

Dollars/hp it's not such a good investment in my opinion. But it's a hobby not a business. I for one do like to tinker.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

I have a pair of ICT 34 supplied by John.
Replaced the linkage with a CSP as it seemed a better idea on paper - and better look.

How do you make sure the linkage opens both carbs the same way, at the same time?

The CSP bell crank is not in the center of the engine (right rod is longer than left as the pivot sits on the left side of the case) and its vertical axis is not aligned with the carb throttle axis (axises?). All this geometry has a price: you might be at the same spot at idling, but at mid or full throttle, the carbs are not opened the same exact way.

I see that Vintage Speed (Carrera Parts) mounts theirs to the alternator stand to have it closer to the engine center, but it's not fully centered either...
What's your solution?
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Pics?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

AlteWagen wrote:
Pics?


Here they are.
You can see how the right rod is not in a straight line with the left, it's slightly below. I tried with the spacers from CB Perf, but they're marginally too thick and then it's the left carb which seems too high. And it's worse for the throttle, they're way off at full throttle, but good at idle.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Another angle:
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And another full on:
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I used bolt extensions to bring the end of the pushrods in line with the central pivot:
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Bolt is not warped, it's the camera playing tricks:
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From above (hard to put the camera in a good position), you can sort of see how both rods are almost perfectly aligned:
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On the right side, the extension bolt is marginally longer:
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From right of engine:
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With no extension bolts, the difference between the throttle positions was pretty big. With this setup I'm closer, but not a 100% in sync on the all travel. I'm getting a pair of heat insulators from Eurocarb, they're half the thickness of the CB Perf risers. With a bit of luck, it should bring the carbs up the right amount.

I'm still quite puzzled by the poor options we have when it comes to linking two carburetors. Hex bar is bulky, ugly (my opinion) and prone to play as engine expands. Bell crank pull/pull should be fine but not being exactly between the two carbs, it's bound to have geometry problems. And whilst the SyncLink is a neat solution, it doesn't fit if you have the heater tubes - and I won't mention the steep price.

I'm surprised no one ever came up with a system like the Bell crank but with cables and pulley instead of rods. I rode a BMW Boxer motorbike for a while, and that was exactly their solution: the throttle activated a dual pulley between the carbs, which both had a little pulley instead of a lever. Simple solution to a complex problem.
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Looks like you have the optimum setup other than the carbs.

How are you determining they are off sync at part throttle?

As far as hex bar linkage, due to the 'floating' bar it is not susceptible to engine expansion like bell crank style. Fortunately you have the two arm bell which is better at dealing with expansion. What Ive found is the linkage arm on the shaft itself is most important in trying to get the carbs synchronized. In the universal kits the hole is SUPER sloppy and will move around, and others are not the same length or the shaft cutout is placing the arms in the incorrect place.

Its funny you mention cable linkage based on a center bell crank, Ive been developing cable linkage myself and it has evolved to what you describe. The first prototype is in the YouTube video posted earlier in the thread. Ive experimented with the traditional dual cable links but found it difficult to sync. The key for me was the linkage arm, I started to have some custom made to my specs but have run out of funding and mainly time. Originally I used CBs unilink, maybe you could try them if you find your arms are not positioned in an equal angle.

http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3358.htm

I ended up modifying that little link quite a bit, I added more holes so they were at 12 and 6 o clock at half throttle and it made a big difference.

The problem you will encounter is the bushings in the ICTs wear quickly. Once that happens no amount of tweaking of the linkage will keep them in sync.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Thanks for your feedback!

I'll try the heat risers later this week, they're half the thickness of the CB riser, hopefully that will bring everyone in line. It's a good time to still play with the carbs, since they are currently empty - I worked on them last weekend, easier to have no fuel in them otherwise the engine would be totally flooded by the end of the adjustment!

Looking down the carb throat, with my eye and also with a little USB camera is how I could check the throttle position - having blocked the accelerator pedal at mid range. Full throttle is easier since you hear it hitting the stopper - same as idle position. I work in a quiet garage, so it's easy to hear the stoppers.

It's the first time I hear about the ICT being prone to wear, I thought they had better reputation than this - mine are not the EMPI copies, they're spanish Webers. I'm planning to move to fuel injection probably by the end of the year, so the iCTs won't have time to wear on me...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

You just hit on the biggest problem that is encountered with dual carbs in my view! Getting the throttles to be exactly synced through the whole range is a real challenge. My feeling is that if one strives to get it as close as possible in the bottom 1/2 of the throttle range and live with the discrepancies at the high end. You will do very little driving there anyway.

With lots of tinkering I got mine pretty close so will see how good when I get it running.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Weber IDF choke solutions.

This post is not intended for everyone out there but I wanted to share my solution to the issue of making chokes usable for the few of us that live in cooler parts of the world and plan to start and run our engines in less than ideal weather.

If anyone else has come up with their own fix I would appreciate if you would share it with us. There may be better ways of doing this out there!

The choke naysayers can skip this post please.

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I used bicycle cables for the carb side.
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This plate bolts on to the stock type 4 air cleaner brackets, has the fuel pressure regulator bolted underneath and gives me a place to fasten a splitter for the choke cables.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I used a lawn mower throttle cable to go forward from the engine and the handle will be mounted on the tunnel beside the shifter.

It seems to work pretty well on the bench but any suggestions for improvement are welcome!
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Good morning, I am a new member, kinda, have been visiting and reading all I can and getting help with what I need.
I own a VW powered Trike, built in 1976 has a 1600cc engine that was released late in 1973 out of Mexico. Kit case for the rebuilder, and it has been built up some from stock, just not totally sure what was done.

I have learned a lot from this thread, thank you all for contributing your knowledge to help make this a valuable piece for many VW owner's.

I want to see how/who is still following this thread, I have to get a few things done before I ask about the carb's and what should I do, I hope to get this all running and on the road soon.

Again, THANK YOU, to ALL who have taken the time to make this thread what it is, awesome.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

That choke solution looks great, very similar to my cable linkage. Most climates will not require chokes but it is nice to have if you live in a cold zone and have working thermostat too. Make sure to check after a bit of use as the cables will stretch a bit but for choke I dont think its that critical



Gramps, I always follow any threads I create (as long as Im notified there is a post). This time as usual I did not get any notification but still scan the stickies to see if there are any.

Please feel free to post or PM if you like and I will usually post replies in the thread so others can benefit from any problems or troubleshooting.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

AlteWagen wrote:
That choke solution looks great, very similar to my cable linkage. Most climates will not require chokes but it is nice to have if you live in a cold zone and have working thermostat too. Make sure to check after a bit of use as the cables will stretch a bit but for choke I dont think its that critical

Thanks AlteWagen, I learned the "don't need a thermostat" lesson a while back, these engines run so much better around the city with temperature control! The tune is so consistent now.

Yes we can't all live where the climate is ideal and while this is not a daily driver we do have fun with it in the winter so the choke feature will be very nice.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
AlteWagen wrote:
That choke solution looks great, very similar to my cable linkage. Most climates will not require chokes but it is nice to have if you live in a cold zone and have working thermostat too. Make sure to check after a bit of use as the cables will stretch a bit but for choke I dont think its that critical

Thanks AlteWagen, I learned the "don't need a thermostat" lesson a while back, these engines run so much better around the city with temperature control! The tune is so consistent now.

Yes we can't all live where the climate is ideal and while this is not a daily driver we do have fun with it in the winter so the choke feature will be very nice.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You Canadians are crazy.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:57 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Spike0180 wrote:

You Canadians are crazy.


That actually sounds like a ton of fun!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

It does look like fun, the bones do not like the cold anymore, but I would enjoy it while I could stand the cold.

Good morning to everyone, I did find that I had sticky needle valves, so I cleaned them, bad cone filters on the inlet of the carbs, so I have new ones on the way, but I did rebuild the fuel line circuit and get proper filters in line and a fuel pressure gauge.

So I tried yesterday to start her up, no go, almost, ran down battery supply. After reading more about the electronic dist. it has, well low voltage leads to no start or a start and die issue. I do believe I was at both conditions.

Once all wake up, I will look all over, than I will see about her starting up.

Thank you all for sharing with others.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Spike0180 wrote:
You Canadians are crazy.

It was a great winter for ice racing! We don't take vehicles on the lakes until there is 8 to 10" of ice. This year we had 30"!
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

So I was right there, but just did not think so, a person who worked on the engine in the past showed up, so we got it running in no time.

Okay, so I was getting all tuned in, all was going well. I did have to mount the fuel cell high on the back cargo area, sit's a bit above 9 inch's above carb's inlet port.

I did not at first have a shut off valve, fuel drained out fast and down into oil.
R&R oil and let the case breath a bit before putting in the fresh oil.

I also checked the float needle valves again, and the floats them selves, and cleaned out idle jets, all looked good.

I again have lost fuel to fast. So all that I could find makes it sound like these 40/44 kads have issues when the tank is above the inlet on the carb., so I will have to build my tank, or get something done, while I get the front end, or bent neck, repaired or replaced.

To prove the issue, I will get a gas can and set it on the floor and draw fuel from it, bummer thing is I can not ride around until all get done, so I can only go with how fast the last 2 gallons of fuel disappeared compared to how long these next 2 gallons last when drawn from the lower level, basically the level of the electric fuel pump, which is mounted near the front of the transmission. I did get a fuel gauge installed in line to monitor fuel pressure, and cheap fluid filled gauge is off, takes near 1lb pressure just to move needle, and thinking near 2lb pressure to see the gauge register 1lb, or the disc dial regulator is crap...... just love chasing my tail.

So to much reading, to many issues, so one at a time, first this fuel issue and getting all to run nice. Than front end, get frame confirmed straight or do what is needed to make it straight. From this point I have to tackle the rear end, modify it up to who knows what, or just get back to stock parts that are straight and true, if I can ever figure out how to confirm the trailing arms are truly bent.

Sorry this trike has me...... I just wanted to stop in and update the fact I am still not happy with my Kads performance, just watch the fuel disappear, how will I ever get to go on any lengthy ride ? something is not right, and I will see if tank location is the cause of the issue later today.
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

There is a factory anti siphon valve, not sure if it will help in this situation

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