Lead Additive. Should it be used?

carcrazed · Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:38 am Post subject: Lead Additive. Should it be used?

Ok, forgive me, but it has been a LONG time since I have had a stock engine from way back in the day. When I had my old Ford and Chevy engines before I got them rebuilt, I was running CD2 lead substitute since, obviously, there was no leaded gasoline anymore. Very soon, I will be running my original 1200cc in my 1961. This case has never been cracked open and all original. Should I be running a lead substitute in this engine, or is it ok to run unleaded?
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1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

KTPhil · Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:58 am Post subject:

If the heads have been rebuilt since about 1980, they probably have new hardened valve seats, which was the main weakness when running unleaded.

carcrazed · Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:00 am Post subject:

still stock 1961 heads on it. They have never been touched.
_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

KTPhil · Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:02 am Post subject:

If it were mine, I'd pull the heads, have short stud kits installed, and new valve guides and seats installed. A few miles won't hurt it, but stop-n-go and freeway driving will be hard on the heads without lead.

Back in the day, a side effect of unleaded was lowered octane, but today that has been mitigated with better gas. Valves are the main issue.

Nevada Notch · Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:51 pm Post subject:

I had one valve seat in my 1200 collapse even when using lead substitute.

Go for the valve seat replacement.
_________________
1966 Euro
1600DP
Dual 34mm ICT's
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carcrazed · Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:12 pm Post subject:

Ok...I might have to take the heads off and do that just to be safe.
_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

Glenn · Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:13 pm Post subject:

Unless you plan on driving it daily, I wouldn't bother.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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jzjames · Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:46 pm Post subject:

Joey · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:30 am Post subject:

What does the heads have to do with lead in gas? Lead was added to gas as a anti-knock compound for high-compression engines. I think a stock VW engine is safe with unleaded gas.
_________________
Joey

‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle

Glenn · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:57 am Post subject:

It has to do with the valve seats and guides.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

VolkswagenVMan · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:40 am Post subject:

The lead also was a kind of lubricant for the valve guides and cushioned the valves as they closed on the seats.
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PFN · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:11 am Post subject:

When leaded fuel was was discontinued in Australia my VW mechanic (factory trained, Air Cooled) took out an advertisement in the newspaper recommending that VW drivers use one of the available 'valve saver' additives. The product recommended is called Flash Lube. I've used it ever since.

I've heard, and really agree, that a non-toxic slightly oily product can't come anywhere close to replacing diethyl lead. In summary, I've never had any problems with valve seats using this product. I'd be interested and not entirely surprised if there were no problems without it. I think the upper engine lubricant properties is something of a myth. Lead was put in petrol for its anti-knock properties.
_________________
1962 1/2 Australian Made Beetle
1961 factory RHD Karmann Ghia

(gone now)
1964 RHD Conversion Karmann Ghia
1956 RHD Beetle
1972 Kombi

glutamodo · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:49 am Post subject:

I've had pre-65 40HP heads have valve seats get eaten away before - and I've had them hold up OK, with unleaded and no additives. Seems kind of luck of the draw. I think it was with the redesigned heads in late calendar 1964 that the valve seats changed, at least there's this note in Progressive Refinements:

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carcrazed · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:55 am Post subject:

This will be a car show/pleasure driver car. I usually put less that 300 miles on my classic cars in a summer, so it won't get hardly any miles. I most likely will stick with a additive. Thanks for the suggestions. It has been awhile since I looked at additives like that, but I am going to hit the Auto Zone isle.
_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

PFN · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:58 am Post subject:

KTPhil · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:39 pm Post subject:

For those of us of an age where we drove cars both pre- and post-lead, there is no question of the damage done to engines not designed to run on unleaded. Let's move on.

So what can you do today? As posted, if you don't drive much or under heavy loads and rpm, do nothing. The damage is cumulative but slow. But if it is your daily driver, it will be well worthwhile to do a modern head rebuild on it using current materials. How will you use your car?

my59 · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:20 pm Post subject:

When I got the '59 the guy who had been maintaining it suggested lead additive. Its is not a daily driver, and I know the heads (let alone anything else in the engine) have never been worked on. I use lead additive. At 175k miles on the original engine I will keep using it.
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my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
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carcrazed · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:58 pm Post subject:

It definitely will be used to drive to car shows and maybe once in awhile for a Sunday drive...that is about all. I am leaning towards the lead substitute. I will not put many miles a year on it.
_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

thomas. · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject:

Can you even purchase it anymore ? I thought it was outlawed by the EPA.
Nevermind I just googled it and theres lots of products avail.

johnnypan · Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:10 pm Post subject:

Upper cylinder lubrication is done by the byproduct of burning gasoline..carbon and soot actually lube valve seats and minimize valve and guide wear...using the proper distributor is key,the SVDA and DVDA found on later engines create a 'lean burn' condition during peak engine vacuum eliminating the soot and carbon necessary for this lubrication in order to reduce engine emissions..basically,a gross polluter yields happy heads..

Lead in gasoline maximized the lubrication effect of the burned gasoline byproduct..it would be a benefit if it was legal,it damn near eliminates valve face and seat wear when used with an early distributor..


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