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Wat Spain new!!!??? Steering Box for Later Bay Bus
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Ed Ruth
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Wat Spain new!!!??? Steering Box for Later Bay Bus Reply with quote

I saw an add at www.eisparts.com "Steering Box New, Bus's " 73 -79" built by Wat of Spain. Has anyone heard of this steering box? It it truly new? Of what quality? I can find no reference for Wat Spain. What's going on?
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pb24ss
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i too am curious about this. hopefully someone has some input.
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the photo looks like the TRW boxes as I recall. It may be that is who makes them or they bought a license to make them also.

TRW
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WAT
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Ed Ruth
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is your opinion as to the best option for steering boxes Kent? Also, I heard once long ago that a company in Texas specialized in rebuilding steering boxes. There must be someone in the good old USA (now ChiMerica??) who rebuilds such things...
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GeorgeO.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Package like the one I bought but none of the parts off my old box fit. My supplier is still looking for the control arm and nut and I hope I don't run into a family of four on a two lane road!
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79SuperVert
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is their web site:

http://www.wat.es/

Click on the "EN" in the upper right hand of the website and it will display in English. They apparently have two factories, one of which is in Germany, and they have been in business for 40 years. But I've never heard of them.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rolling with Spanish
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Ruth wrote:
What is your opinion as to the best option for steering boxes Kent? Also, I heard once long ago that a company in Texas specialized in rebuilding steering boxes. There must be someone in the good old USA (now ChiMerica??) who rebuilds such things...


There are three genuine VW steering boxes on bays that I know of.

1) early until 1972. There is a peg that wears and no one makes them. NOS ones appear unibtainium, otherwise they would be rebuildable. Instructions in Bentley.

2) Early 1973. Made in France by Gemmer factory. Same place Ferrari boxes were made etc.

3) Gemmer licensed to ZF in Germany to make their boxes. The French and German models look near identical except the nut that holds the pitman arm on is bigger on the German box.

The late boxes are quite durable. I cleaned and restored several late ZF boxes. One was worn so I tossed it but the others were fine. The last one I rebuilt feels no different than this NOS ZF one Hoody found for me.

If you understand how they are supposed to work you can easily adjust them and determine if they are worn. Imagine that you have a gear and worn that steers the car. The gear turns the worm which thru levers turns the wheels. As you use it parts would wear and play would develop - so you might add an adjuster screw to set the play between the gear and worm. Since you spend most of your time near the center of the setup, those teeth and the worm would wear more. Right? So you keep adjusting the gearbox to keep the play out. Now one day you turn the gearbox all the way to one side in a hard turn - but now you are in a part of the gear and worm that is not worn. Since you have tightened it the gear jams and you crash. That is what happened when steering boxes were first invented. Then the engineers came up with a fix. If they made the gear and worm so it was looser to the outside and tighter in the center, as it wore and was adjusted, the outside never jammed unless the center really wore away. So with normal wear the box simply got closer to even. Think of it like a road. When the tires ride the highway gets a rut in it. What if the engineers made that area a little higher when they poured the highway? Then as the rut formed the highway would be flat. It wouldn't be until the highway was really worn that a rut formed - instead of flat to rut it would go from raised area to flat to worn.

So if you can adjust your steering box per Bentley or the Orange book to where there is appropriate drag in the center, and it is still loose outside then the box is not too worn. Just keep gear oil in it. The seals can be replaced. If however it is loose in the center but binds either side of center it is worn out. That one I threw away was like that but the others were Ok. The one I took off my bus when I put the NOS one on felt exactly the same as this NOS box.

I think most of you with 1973 on boxes just need to adjust them And the 1972 and earlier boxes someone needs to find a machine shop to make replacement pegs. They can even use an old peg to test the Rockwell hardness and match it if you get a good shop. The peg eventually stops turning and gets flat spots on its sides. If you could get a new peg you could do a lot to make it feel like new. You would spread the wear over the whole peg instead of just one tiny contact area.
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Stuartzickefoose
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i still need to get mine fix....kent are you available for a rebuild? Smile
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gatorjos
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Wat Spain new!!!??? Steering Box for Later Bay Bus Reply with quote

I just installed my WAT steering box I bought from CIP1. Seems to weigh more than the one I pulled off (granted that one is missing the gear oil).

Looks nicely made, but kinda hard to judge by the exterior.

I'll report back how it lasts!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Wat Spain new!!!??? Steering Box for Later Bay Bus Reply with quote

gatorjos wrote:
I just installed my WAT steering box I bought from CIP1. Seems to weigh more than the one I pulled off (granted that one is missing the gear oil).

Looks nicely made, but kinda hard to judge by the exterior.

I'll report back how it lasts!


If the old one is just loose and the gears not worn out in the center then the old one might be re-buildable to like new for next to nothing other than time.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Wat Spain new!!!??? Steering Box for Later Bay Bus Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:

If the old one is just loose and the gears not worn out in the center then the old one might be re-buildable to like new for next to nothing other than time.


Totally -- the seals let go dramatically, so it definitely needed to be pulled. I have street sweeping where I live, and while I probably could have rebuilt it in a weekend and put it back in, I opted for getting one that was ready to plunk in. I'm not sure yet if I'll sell the core or hang on to it and rebuild it. Don't see a reason to swap it back in if the WAT is good.

I like your explanation of the gearbox, and now understand why its loose then tight then loose over the 7 turns -- thanks! Very Happy
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cchris
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Wat Spain new!!!??? Steering Box for Later Bay Bus Reply with quote

I have a 76 Baywindow and the box is fine other than all the oils leaking out of the big round 4 bolt gasket anyone know where i can purchase a rebuild gasket kit?

Thanks in advance!
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Wat Spain new!!!??? Steering Box for Later Bay Bus Reply with quote

Use RTV? The boxes are unserviceable as to parts other than the shaft seals which are standard sizes. Original looks like maybe Curil was used. The top photo is a NOS box right out of the factory sealed wrapper. You can see the Curil? oozing out between the plates on the 4 bolt gold part.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Re: Wat Spain new!!!??? Steering Box for Later Bay Bus Reply with quote

gatorjos wrote:
I just installed my WAT steering box I bought from CIP1. Seems to weigh more than the one I pulled off (granted that one is missing the gear oil). Looks nicely made, but kinda hard to judge by the exterior.

FWIW we now have the same WAT unit for almost $100 less. $285 with your Samba discount. http://www.busdepot.com/211415049h
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jtauxe Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Wat Spain new!!!??? Steering Box for Later Bay Bus Reply with quote

Busdepot wrote:
... with your Samba discount.

Darn it - I keep forgetting that you have a discount for us Sambanistas.
Thanks for doing that.
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