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Upper / lower ball joints
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MarkZee
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Upper / lower ball joints Reply with quote

What is the difference between the 181 upper & lower ball joint? Are the 181 BJ's heavier / bigger than Beetle BJ's, or will they fit the beetle arms & spindle?

If 181 bj's are both operating in same orientation / direction, (why) are the uppers & lowers any different?


Last edited by MarkZee on Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GI Joe
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it has more to do with functional angles, rather than "heavier"...
With the raised suspension height, the Thing joints need to be able to function at increased angles, where the bug sits lower, and thus the angle is much less before they bind.
I also believe the Thing joints Will work in a Bug arm..
More knowledgable folks will pipe in, I'm sure!
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Ron Domeck
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Thing has a bigger taper and shaft.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron Domeck wrote:
The Thing has a bigger taper and shaft.


To show my level of ignorance on this subject what do you do ball joint wise when installing disc brake kits, dropped spindles, and such?
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MarkZee
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron Domeck wrote:
The Thing has a bigger taper and shaft.


If 181 joints are operating in the same orientation - un like bugs , one up, one down - (why) are the 181 top & bottom bj's different?
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Ron Domeck
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one with the adjuster has a longer shaft I think. Our cars that are lowered has the beetle control arms so, beetle ball joints.
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Bashr52
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Ron Domeck wrote:
The Thing has a bigger taper and shaft.


To show my level of ignorance on this subject what do you do ball joint wise when installing disc brake kits, dropped spindles, and such?


Easy, just press beetle ball joints into the Thing arms in the correct orientation. You will need the beetle eccentrics since the Thing ones will have to large of a hole due to the bigger diameter of the balljoint shaft.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bashr52 wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
Ron Domeck wrote:
The Thing has a bigger taper and shaft.


To show my level of ignorance on this subject what do you do ball joint wise when installing disc brake kits, dropped spindles, and such?


Easy, just press beetle ball joints into the Thing arms in the correct orientation. You will need the beetle eccentrics since the Thing ones will have to large of a hole due to the bigger diameter of the balljoint shaft.


Still don't see how the lower ball joint would fit the Beetle arms. Crying or Very sad
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citroen
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok here goes these are a few pictures that might help
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
these are the adjusters the small one are for the bugs the large one are for the thing
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
the one on the left is for the bug the one on the right is for the thing which has a larger shaft same size mounting
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
the one on the left is the bug the one on the right is for the thing same arm different joint
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
lower arms left is for the thing right is for the bug notice the longer stud for the shock on the thing arm and the bigger shaft on the ball joint
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the torsion arms are essentially the same except for the stud for the shock? The difference between the Beetle and Thing beam would mainly be the direction the lower joint was pressed in from?
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Ron Domeck
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the last time this was covered we found out that the lower arms had to be swapped left to right and not the way the joints are pushed in. That how you change weather the control arms go in from the top-Thing or bottom- Beetle.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron Domeck wrote:
I think the last time this was covered we found out that the lower arms had to be swapped left to right and not the way the joints are pushed in. That how you change weather the control arms go in from the top-Thing or bottom- Beetle.


That would make sense. Wink
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Bashr52
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was able to keep the arms in the same location, and just pressed in the bug joints in the correct orientation for ghia spindles. The hole in the arm is not tapered, so you can press the ball joints in from either direction. No need to flip.
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Ron Domeck
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats good to know, Thanks
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sloboatnova
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of all the "ball joint" threads I just read thru, this one is the most helpful, so I will continue it with another question. I see above, the differences in the ball joints, but what about the radius? In my baja, I have a type 1 beam with ball joints that CB Perfoemance sells as radius for more suspension travel before bindage. I'm working on building a thing beam to go in the baja. How will the suspension travel on stock thing ball joints compare to radiused ball joints? I am considering using the beetle upper arms/radiused joints, and eccentrics. But that doesn't help me with the lowers as the ball joint shaft is larger.

So, I guess my question is, whats the normal suspension travel for thing front suspension? Does anyone think I might gain any travel by using radiused ball joints on the upper only?
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jeffff
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are these upper and lower ball joints from Cip1 any good?

http://www.cip1.ca/searchresults.asp?cat=878
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1971VW Type 181
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,
I just purchased a set of upper and lower ball joints from FCP Euro. Meyle 181405361A and Meyle 181405371C. Price is $23.99 each for German ball joints and free shipping if you order total is $75. www.fcpeuro.com
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffff wrote:
Are these upper and lower ball joints from Cip1 any good?

http://www.cip1.ca/searchresults.asp?cat=878


Call CIP1 and see what brand they are supplying.
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117harv
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can some one clear up some questions I have, are the OD of the Thing and Bug ball joints the same? And is the larger Thing taper the same degree as the Bug? If so do the bug joints just seat lower into the Thing spindles?
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Ron Domeck
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The shaft is larger so if you tried to use Beetle joints you will not be able the tighten, This is not an area to cheapen out on. Now if you want to put Beetle arms adjusters and spindles and lower the front about 2-3 in. go with Beetle joints.
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