Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
modok
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 21301
Location: Colorado Springs
modok is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I had a list of 043 head letter codes but I decided some of that wasn't correct.

Today I found the "mexico" 043-101-375H has a slightly different and smaller port than the heads with the same part number that DON'T say mexico! After I went head hunting and got a pair of german? ones and was baffled why they weren't the same, then noticed they didn't say mexico LOL

But anyway the 33x30 valve FI castings are letters H and R

"A" I think these are all the larger port like 113 DP heads.

Not sure about "K" and "J"
Been told euro DP 1300 heads have no letter code.

Some of the mexico H heads were sold with 35.5x32 valves, and some have 3/4 long reach plugs and some don't!
Another difference, is the mexico H and R have no bump in the intake port. (the bump that clears the valve spring seat)

So it's not ALL figured out yet, but all 043 heads are not created equal, they DO have both the largest and smallest ports!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mudbucket
Samba Member


Joined: June 04, 2015
Posts: 34

mudbucket is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, just what I was looking for!

I have a set of Mexican FI heads with the small valves I was thinking of using but those are out it seems. I have a few sets of GEX 113 heads but don't want to risk it. I remember a set of 040 brazil heads but not sure if I sold those at the swap or not Ill have to look. I also got a 60cc syringe from the hospital supply so I guess Ill just check what is what when I find a good core set.

Thanks again, back to the shed!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Hustlers67
Samba Member


Joined: September 21, 2011
Posts: 258
Location: Sydney, Australia
Hustlers67 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone know where I can find the port size, (not valve size) intake port for stock dual port heads? Must be like 28mm each?

What about the stock port size for CB044?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
modok
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 21301
Location: Colorado Springs
modok is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Port ID of stock DP heads is somewhere between 30mm and 31mm, once casting roughness is cleaned up.
FI heads are a little smaller, but only a little.

044 and 041 heads do not have a consistent ID, so.....the question would be more like how big are they by the time you fix them? And the answer is, a LOT bigger.
IMO, equivalent to 33-34mm diameter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Hustlers67
Samba Member


Joined: September 21, 2011
Posts: 258
Location: Sydney, Australia
Hustlers67 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Modok.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Welt
Samba Member


Joined: December 16, 2011
Posts: 116
Location: Finland
Welt is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:45 am    Post subject: OEM cylinder head materials Reply with quote

Might as well post these snippets of info on OEM VW cylinder heads I gathered a while ago. Got interested in what the original cylinder heads are made of and what the suitable filler alloys are for welding them. Did some Optical Emissions Spectrometry on some junk heads and here are the results:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It seems that VW changed casting alloys at some point. Here's some mechanical property comparisons for the other OEM alloy (242.0) and the alloy some aftermarket heads are said to be (A356). Note anything interesting in the high temperature range?

If anyone is wondering what the recommended welding fillers are for the OEM heads:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1956 Oval
1971 Type 181
1974 Baywindow
1974 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jim Schield
Samba Member


Joined: December 20, 2003
Posts: 64

Jim Schield is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:56 am    Post subject: Analyzing data Reply with quote

Lots of great numbers, but we dummies out here can't properly know they mean. Are the 113 heads better than the 043's? The 356 material compared to the others?
Best regards,
Jim Schield
(who wold like to be smarter on head selection)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
modok
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 21301
Location: Colorado Springs
modok is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are the 043 heads tested made in Germany? I assume so.
I believe type-4 heads are also copper/nickel alloy also, maybe they used the same alloy for the type-1 FI heads.

Mexico heads would be a different alloy, i would like to know what they are! But, mexico heads must be rare in Finland.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Welt
Samba Member


Joined: December 16, 2011
Posts: 116
Location: Finland
Welt is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Analyzing data Reply with quote

Jim Schield wrote:
Lots of great numbers, but we dummies out here can't properly know they mean. Are the 113 heads better than the 043's? The 356 material compared to the others?
Best regards,
Jim Schield
(who wold like to be smarter on head selection)


In short, the newer the better. 043 heads are made of a better alloy (242.0) than the older ones (319.0) and at least some of the aftermarket (A356.0 general purpose alloy). 242.0 retains strength to much higher temperatures, but is PITA to cast. But thermal fatigue on the used OE heads vs brand new aftermarket is one thing to be aware of.

modok wrote:
are the 043 heads tested made in Germany? I assume so.
I believe type-4 heads are also copper/nickel alloy also, maybe they used the same alloy for the type-1 FI heads.

Mexico heads would be a different alloy, i would like to know what they are! But, mexico heads must be rare in Finland.


I actually have no idea. I got these samples from a guy with a lot of junk heads, so only the part/casting numbers were taken/I did not see the heads personally. Genuine 33x30 heads are still being sold here new, so I wouldn't say all mexico ones are super rare here. Haven't personally seen any junk ones to take samples from though.

If someone is truly interested in knowing what a head is made of and isn't afraid of spending a few bucks sending a letter containing a small flat piece of a cooling fin, I'd be more than happy to test compositions.
_________________
1956 Oval
1971 Type 181
1974 Baywindow
1974 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
modok
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 21301
Location: Colorado Springs
modok is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

call the guy back and ask him if the 043 heads say "Mexico" in the rocker box or not!
Easier than doing it again!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
AlteWagen
Troll


Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 7710

AlteWagen is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:41 am    Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet Reply with quote

FINALLY got me a set of RM 049 heads, the basic as cast 40x35 version. Took two weeks from order to delivery which is not too bad. They shimmed the springs to match the cam, opened for 94mm bore and provided cc of my choice free of charge. Ill be testing the installed and full lift pressures to see how close they are to what was written on the head especially since some were as much 20 pounds different. I cc'd the port and as previous persons have stated its got a 60cc volume. I also cc'd the chamber and got 57cc which is fine as I will unshroud and clean them up a little to get them to my desired compression.

The casting flash was cleaned up and fins cleared before they shipped them, you can see the drill holes in the pics. It was hard to get a clear pic but on the outer fins you can see where they also cleared it out where the casting molds come together. This is where you can tell the 2nds that were rejected by RM that empi bought and resold with the RM logo ground out of the rocker box. The seconds had fins that were WAY off and could not be cleaned up without major work.

Only thing I didnt like is even after asking Mike specifically about the valve job (he said they came with a 3 angle) after closer inspection I only see a single cut and a lap mark. Maybe its my old eyes and I just dont see the other cuts but Ill let you be the judge. Ill probably add a back cut on the intake valve and at the very least re lap as some look like they had a chip between the valve and seat when they lapped the first time it left some score marks on the seat which leaked pretty good when trying to cc the port.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
AlteWagen
Troll


Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 7710

AlteWagen is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:46 am    Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet Reply with quote

Here are a few other heads for comparison. Pics from the gallery

VW castings

36HP where it all began. Note factory reconditioned stamp in third pic

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



40HP intake manifold studs at 90* from head studs. Early versions 61-64 had round boss rocker stands with long rocker studs, later had square boss stands short studs. Short stud retrofit was common on rebuilt heads to remedy pulled thread issues.

Type I late square boss shown

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Type II late square boss shown

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




50HP Single Port. German and Mexican production, Intake studs at angle,late Mexican Type III heads shown. Note extremely important small square tin in 2nd pic which diverts cooling air to bottom fins. No current production heads come with these tins. Berg and a few others now reproduce this and it is HIGHLY recommended that these are used.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



AA now offers a Chinese reproduction

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




311 German production first DP head offered in Type III in 1969, 35x32 valves. please post good pics if you have them


113 German production Type I starting 1971. please post good pics if you have them


040 German, Brazilian production, later versions had step in chamber for emission reduction.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.





041 German and Brazilian production Brazilian version shown. German version rumored to resemble the earlier 040 casting, Ive never seen one so cannot verify differences between it and the Brazilian 041 which had some significant changes. Brazilian 041 considered factory racing head, larger as cast ports and 39mm intake valve with HD 32mm exhaust valve. A solid chamber design was also introduced, this allows the possibility of deep flycut while keeping a strong chamber. A quick identifier is the single full cooling fin at the base while most other VW heads had two full fins (4th and 8th fin). I believe it to be a factory head for Brazilian SP1.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



043 German and Mexican production. NA and FI versions used on this casting. Both long and short 14mm plug versions available. Valve stem bosses removed from intake and exhaust ports. NA came with 35x32 standard 8mm stems while FI 33x30 with HD 9mm stems. Smaller "Higher" port compared to earlier castings. Sorry no good pics at the moment, add them if you got em.




044 Yes VW made a 044 head. Looks to be the same casting as the 041 with the addition of 40mm intake and 35mm exhaust valves.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Auto linea, an OEM foundry in Brazil produced versions of the stock DP heads. The 040 aka G01, 041 with 40x35 valves aka G03 and the 044 (for CB Performance) aka G04. I have only seen one picture of a 043 but unsure of its designation and not sure if any of these heads (other than the 044) are still in production. The castings themselves are of OEM quality but the hardware (seats, valves, springs) from Autolinea is suspect. These castings require the removal of "flash" to cool properly.

040

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



041

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




043

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



044

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
AlteWagen
Troll


Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 7710

AlteWagen is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet Reply with quote

AA performance heads are easily identified by their improved combustion chamber ("heart shape"). 500 and 501 series have added material around ports for increased volume without welding and solid chamber design.

DP and SP clones are also available with stock chambers


500 40x35 Added material around ports without compromising cooling fins, long reach 12mm plugs, heart chambers

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



501 42x37 Even more material added around intake ports allowing extra large volumes. 3 full cooling fins at 4th, 7th and 8th fin.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



502 No longer in production. 40x35, 14mm short plug, heart chamber, solid chamber, 3 full fins.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
modok
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 21301
Location: Colorado Springs
modok is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet Reply with quote

I see two and a half angles,. The top cut is very small.
Thanks for all the pics. The 500 looks like best choice if aiming for ultimate airspeed. Are the ports in the 501 same?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
AlteWagen
Troll


Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 7710

AlteWagen is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet Reply with quote

modok wrote:
I see two and a half angles,. The top cut is very small.
Thanks for all the pics. The 500 looks like best choice if aiming for ultimate airspeed. Are the ports in the 501 same?


All three ports on the heads I have (500, 501, 502) measured 55cc as cast. The 501s I got were one of the "dropped port" batches before they changed foundries. I ran them unported on a 1914 with a W100/7:1/44IDF and it was a torque monster but hit a wall at 4500rpm. I orginally wanted to drop in a W120/9:1 and do a direct comparison but had a kid and all the fun came to a screeching halt. These heads are currently on a 2276 with mild port work (62cc port volume), unshrouded chambers and a 86B/10:1 IDA engine for my ghia, hopefully it will be a bit quicker Wink
_________________
Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
george4888 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: December 29, 2003
Posts: 705
Location: Hitchcock, Texas
george4888 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:55 pm    Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet Reply with quote

I am not as smart as you guys, but did a test comparing some German stock 1971 dual ports with 35X32 valves, stock ports and with 90.5mm cylinders they flowed 100cfm @ .400 with 25 inches vacuum on a Sun Flow Bench. I compared that head with an out of the box cheapest EMPI a 40X35.5mm valve size head with what looked like stock ports. Both heads had about 55cc in the chambers. What I found interesting was with the larger cylinders, the air flow numbers increased, so I guess that means you can move more air measured in CFM through the valves if you have a larger bore size. Also, the EMPI cheap a40X35.5mm heads only flowed 10% more than the stock ones. For the money spent, I did not see much advantage using the EMPI ones and not the stock VW heads. Oh, numbers on flow were 100 CFM on stock, 110 CFM on EMPI base 40X35.5mm heads. $200 more on cost for 10% more air flow did not seem to me like a good deal, money wise.

On some stock casting heads from VW Germany, about 1971, Clyde Berg put in 42X37.5mm valves, major welding and porting and we were getting 210 [email protected] .400 lift with only 90.5mm bore.

I build really conservative street engines and use the latest China made 40X35.5mm valves, looks like stock ports with dual 40 IDF"s and they run good . I don't push them with a 110 cam, past 5000, but they pull strong up to that shift point.

Someone wrote after heads were cut for larger bores, they still had the .060 inch step in them. I don't understand how their machine shop can cut the heads for larger cylinders and leave the step in them. That post make no sense to me. I never go larger than 90.5mm cylinders to seal up the chambers better. Also, the rings last longer with less surface in contact with the sides of the cylinders. Once the step is cut due to boring out the heads, we use a .060inch spacer under the cylinder to keep the deck height on street engines at .100 or more. I have used up to .160 deck height when chambers in the heads were only 50cc or smaller. Running cheap quality regular gasoline. I set up CR at no more than 7:1.

There are so many possible combinations on engines. Thank you for the data on the various heads. Anyone have the numbers on heads rebuilt by Brother's VW Machine shop ? I know the 42X37.5mm ones, I think with Brazil or Mexico castings worked really good on my 1776cc street engine. Those were their D-ports.

---George K. ---
_________________
Home of Karacostas Car ( VW) Repair
"Keeping old VW's running like New!"
Past NHRA and IHRA drag racer
www.bayareavwclub.com
1969 Beetle, 2007cc engine

"Life is hard, but it's harder when you are stupid."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mark tucker
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 20982
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
mark tucker is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet Reply with quote

funny those 501's look almost identickel to my old bare unmachined castings "eppco" heads(no name in the heads,but there defanatly made by epco...ellco?elpoko?el locopoco?elpocoloco?? crap brain fade. I dont know who they were made for, but extreamly close to these new 501's, but mine are probably..30 years old or more probably 40, they dont even have spark plug holes yet....hey there diesel!!!! Rolling Eyes Ive never even seen a pic of any with this chamber mine have. I dont know who commissioned them but they knew thier stuff for the most part. I kinda doubt there rejects go to empi.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
brownnugen
Samba Member


Joined: September 04, 2003
Posts: 132
Location: Charleston, SC
brownnugen is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet Reply with quote

Does anyone have specs on the Scat Mini-D heads? Mine are 043 ones with 40x37.5 valves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
AlteWagen
Troll


Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 7710

AlteWagen is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet Reply with quote

As far as I know the hand ported heads from scat are done by brothers machine. I have never seen any flow numbers from either vendor.
_________________
Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mark tucker
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 20982
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
mark tucker is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet Reply with quote

tyme to add the new cb lost pan of cheetos heads. I dont quite see the heart chamber aa heads as being heart shaped, more of a peanut. they need a spliter coming up from the bottom. as always good work mr wagon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 3 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB