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oprn
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Location: Western Canada
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 Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:23 am Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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| I'm not sure what the "spigot" refers to either but it would be very useful to have type 4 head data in this thread too. |
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:55 am Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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| oprn wrote: |
| I'm not sure what the "spigot" refers to either but it would be very useful to have type 4 head data in this thread too. |
Some people refer to the bore for the cylinder as the spigot.
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mark tucker
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Joined: April 08, 2009
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Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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| Vanillagurilla wrote: |
Empi gtv-2 stage one cnc ported as they came out of the box. 40x35.5 ss valves, dual springs, chormoly retainers and locks, 170 cm, 72cc chambers.
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to me thoise chambers look good but the ports are shit and somebody effed them up....go figure. almost looks like they were done by a exspurt with out a clue... but thats my thoughts, your may varry especialy if you spent $$for them. although the casting looks great. well ok. it may of looked better before somebodt turned on the cnc program. |
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mark tucker
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:47 am Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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| oprn wrote: |
| I'm not sure what the "spigot" refers to either but it would be very useful to have type 4 head data in this thread too. |
and watter boxer data...might as well have all the boxer head data. |
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AlteWagen
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8323
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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Very interesting!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2227764
I wonder how the straight shot of the type 4 port will affect performance. Anyone ever see anything like this?
I have written the company to see if they will offer a 4 in/WBX spacing which I think will make an ultimate type I build with appropriate dome on the piston.
Hopefully they will respond with some flow data.
Have to say I love the cooling fins all the way to the exhaust flange, no doubt better cooling than any currently on the market.
I would really like to see a complete upright engine and see what the fitment of the tins/shroud would be with the top mounted plugs.
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AlteWagen
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 15, 2002
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:58 am Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
Very interesting!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2227764
I wonder how the straight shot of the type 4 port will affect performance. Anyone ever see anything like this?
I have written the company to see if they will offer a 4 in/WBX spacing which I think will make an ultimate type I build with appropriate dome on the piston.
Hopefully they will respond with some flow data.
Have to say I love the cooling fins all the way to the exhaust flange, no doubt better cooling than any currently on the market.
I would really like to see a complete upright engine and see what the fitment of the tins/shroud would be with the top mounted plugs. |
I don't get it.
How can those heads cool at all since there isn't any airflow through the casting? 
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AlteWagen
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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Why the change in tune Roy? you posted this in the billet head thread in direct response to a post of Remmele heads
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Der6VoltFahrers wrote: |
Some pictures of my Remmele Type 1 heads.
They have 45x40 valves and 94mm bore.
They are set up for 10,5:1 compression.
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Look at all those fins!!!!
And the air flow going right down the middle in between the cylinders!!!
Those guys definitely know what they are doing....very cool  |
Looks like more than adequate air flow through the middle of the head as you point out. A custom lower deflector plate will get the cooling air where it needs to be.
Also appears that there was some changes in the center cooling slot compared to the prototype shown above
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AlteWagen
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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Here is the latest design for the top of the head showing the flow channels that funnel cooling air through the center of the head
While I understand the price of these heads is out of range for most of us but when innovation pushes the market into offerings that would not have come about any other way i consider progress in a dying market.
If these heads perform and offer WBX/4in bore it allows more to build big cube engines that were far beyond the range of the average builder in the past.
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[email protected]
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
Why the change in tune Roy? you posted this in the billet head thread in direct response to a post of Remmele heads
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Der6VoltFahrers wrote: |
Some pictures of my Remmele Type 1 heads.
They have 45x40 valves and 94mm bore.
They are set up for 10,5:1 compression.
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Look at all those fins!!!!
And the air flow going right down the middle in between the cylinders!!!
Those guys definitely know what they are doing....very cool |
Looks like more than adequate air flow through the middle of the head as you point out. A custom lower deflector plate will get the cooling air where it needs to be.
Also appears that there was some changes in the center cooling slot compared to the prototype shown above
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The eyeroll emoji means that I was joking but I'm impressed you are following all my posts so closely. Does this mean you might try a set of the best cooling street heads sometime soon?
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AlteWagen
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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Now that these heads are available it gives me better options for my oxy boxer 4 in build. Having the advanced chamber shape, allows for a custom set of domed KB pistons for even better squish/combustion resulting in even cooler running engine. By the time I finish the short block and transmission maybe more 4in bore heads will be available (CB?) that may be a bit more economical but when has an oxyboxer build been economical?
The only reason I saw your post was because I was looking for more pics of the heads and google images routed me back to that billet head thread. Since your posts are usually pushing product or combative I normally just scroll past them but when you post in my thread I do take notice especially when it seems like you are attacking a competitor.
To be honest I was kind of surprised at your comment since every mofoco head Ive seen has very little flow through as delivered. I stopped using mofoco heads on customer builds in the late 90s due to dropped seat issues. I am sure now that the issue was lack of flow through due to casting flash as the same problems are known with autolinea GO1 heads also related to plugged castings.
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[email protected]
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
Now that these heads are available it gives me better options for my oxy boxer 4 in build. Having the advanced chamber shape, allows for a custom set of domed KB pistons for even better squish/combustion resulting in even cooler running engine. By the time I finish the short block and transmission maybe more 4in bore heads will be available (CB?) that may be a bit more economical but when has an oxyboxer build been economical?
The only reason I saw your post was because I was looking for more pics of the heads and google images routed me back to that billet head thread. Since your posts are usually pushing product or combative I normally just scroll past them but when you post in my thread I do take notice especially when it seems like you are attacking a competitor.
To be honest I was kind of surprised at your comment since every mofoco head Ive seen has very little flow through as delivered. I stopped using mofoco heads on customer builds in the late 90s due to dropped seat issues. I am sure now that the issue was lack of flow through due to casting flash as the same problems are known with autolinea GO1 heads also related to plugged castings.
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Your hate for me and my company flows deep I see. Pushing product or combative? I guess you haven't read many of my posts then. I would estimate probably less than 5% of my posts fall under that category. Most of my posts are just answering questions people have and helping the community.
You also must have missed the extensive testing I did over the last year on my heads. We now hand clear certain passages(exactly like those billet heads) so there is proper airflow in the correct areas. I tested my head casting vs 4 other well know name brand heads and my heads cooled 15% better than all of them. I used heads as close as I could in valve size, port volume, and chamber volume and built one engine and switched the heads. I also did it all in one day so the air temp, pressure, etc, was as close as possible.
The reason I made the comments I did on the billet heads was absolutely praising them and at the same time poking fun at all the people who just parrot the line(if there isn't enough airflow, the heads will overheat) without having a clue what they are talking about. What do I mean? Just like the billet heads, you can't compare my heads and the flow through to standard head castings as the increased fin surface area changes the cooling equation. So you see, you can't praise the billet heads and their design while simultaneously bashing my heads. You either like them both and agree with the design or you hate them both and disagree with the design.
Good luck on your build, sounds pretty cool!!!
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AlteWagen
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[email protected]
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
Apologize for the rant.
I will continue to provide data as I receive it.
Happy Holidays |
No worries, hope you have a good holiday as well!!
BTW....in case you missed it, I have gone over our seat dropping issue of the late 90's in my posts before. We had two batches of heads that were dropping seats like crazy. We came to find out that the people in charge of putting the heads together decided that they didn't need to measure the holes anymore before installing the seats. It definitely had nothing to do with airflow through the casting. Shortly after the failures began and we pinpointed the problem, all the people involved no longer worked here. We have had no such issues in the last 20 years.
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mark tucker
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
Very interesting!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2227764
I wonder how the straight shot of the type 4 port will affect performance. Anyone ever see anything like this?
I have written the company to see if they will offer a 4 in/WBX spacing which I think will make an ultimate type I build with appropriate dome on the piston.
Hopefully they will respond with some flow data.
Have to say I love the cooling fins all the way to the exhaust flange, no doubt better cooling than any currently on the market.
I would really like to see a complete upright engine and see what the fitment of the tins/shroud would be with the top mounted plugs. |
just becasue it's a straight shot dosent mean it's necessarily aimed where it should be...or shaper properly....to me heads like this are a waste of aluminum,design,and machine time.and more. but this thread isant about a pissing contest. and why are the chambers offset on those empi heads above?  |
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Jebchevelle
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| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:47 am Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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| Has anyone ever gotten the flow numbers on the AA performance 500 series heads? |
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AlteWagen
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| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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I was only able to get one number for the L3 head from John at AC.net. I asked Johnny who was our rep from AA if they had any numbers for any of their heads and he said no.
I think that the improved flow over a stock head when comparing the L3 is due to the combustion chamber shape. All of the ports Ive measured as cast were SMALLER than a stock head.
I too would love to see out of the box flow numbers for the 500 series.
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Jebchevelle
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| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
I was only able to get one number for the L3 head from John at AC.net. I asked Johnny who was our rep from AA if they had any numbers for any of their heads and he said no.
I think that the improved flow over a stock head when comparing the L3 is due to the combustion chamber shape. All of the ports Ive measured as cast were SMALLER than a stock head.
I too would love to see out of the box flow numbers for the 500 series. |
I just purchased a set and am in no hurry maybe I could find a place to flow bench them? maybe painter's grinders in denver? I was gonna have them redo my stock heads but since the price was a wash I purchased the new heads setup as I figured I would need them. might have wasted my money time will tell, my heads need exhaust stud repairs and machine work pus the one head has a warped rail where the valve cover sits and leaks oil without a tone of sealer. was told $300 plus to fix them and put on hi rev springs. So new heads it is. I got mine with the 35.5mm intake and 32mm exhaust so may be no better then stock. |
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AlteWagen
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| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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If you got them flowed that would be great if you shared the results. The 35x32 500 is basically the "L3" that had 121cfm. The 500 with 40x35 had 132cfm which was equal to the factory 041 head.
All potential steps above stock. I think the most important thing in a build regardless of size is setting a tight deck height along with improved chamber shape. You are already half way there with the AA casting. The 60cc chamber will allow tight deck on most builds, on smaller cc engines you will usually need to fly cut to bring the compression up.
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[email protected]
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: Re: VW Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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| Jebchevelle wrote: |
| AlteWagen wrote: |
I was only able to get one number for the L3 head from John at AC.net. I asked Johnny who was our rep from AA if they had any numbers for any of their heads and he said no.
I think that the improved flow over a stock head when comparing the L3 is due to the combustion chamber shape. All of the ports Ive measured as cast were SMALLER than a stock head.
I too would love to see out of the box flow numbers for the 500 series. |
I just purchased a set and am in no hurry maybe I could find a place to flow bench them? maybe painter's grinders in denver? I was gonna have them redo my stock heads but since the price was a wash I purchased the new heads setup as I figured I would need them. might have wasted my money time will tell, my heads need exhaust stud repairs and machine work pus the one head has a warped rail where the valve cover sits and leaks oil without a tone of sealer. was told $300 plus to fix them and put on hi rev springs. So new heads it is. I got mine with the 35.5mm intake and 32mm exhaust so may be no better then stock. |
It wouldn't be a bad idea to flow test them but you will have a few hurdles to overcome to accomplish that. One, you will need a fixture as most race shops aren't equipped to flow a VW head. I had to build my own fixture. Two, you need to recreate how all the other companies flow tested their heads as close as possible otherwise your results won't mean much. Three, you need to have another head in hand as a "test" that has published flow numbers so as to qualify the bench that you are using. Flow testing a VW head is no simple 10 min in and out of the shop job. You need to make sure your test is accurate otherwise you may be heaping undue praise or undue slander on the company whose heads you are testing. I spent many thousands of dollars and over a year and a half of time flow testing my heads before I felt comfortable publishing the results. I also bought multiple competitors heads that had published flow numbers so I could make 100% sure that the results I got on my heads were accurate.
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