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2weel Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 229 Location: Right in the middle of Coastal Cali.
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:07 am Post subject: VW Powered Motorcycles and Sidecars |
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If you have found your way here and have questions or can add to the thread about VW powered Motorcycles and Sidecars, lets get this thread rolling.
I will start by showing the bikes I currently have to give you an Idea of a VMW.
VMW"S are BMW /2 motorcycles that were converted to VW power in the 1960's and early 70's.
This is a Willis 4's with a sidecar
This is a Brown
This is a Butterfield
This is a Burkey
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2weel Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 229 Location: Right in the middle of Coastal Cali.
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:06 pm Post subject: Your constructive thoughts? |
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It has been discussed in the abortions thread the value of a certain VW powered BMW /2 Sidecar that's for sale on CL.
Before I chime in on the value! These bikes are very misunderstood. Some Purist BMW guys hate them! Some VW Purists hate them. Some just cant wrap there head around why? Others Love the out of the box thinking. VMW's are an oddity unto them selves. So before you cement your thoughts on them I hope you will read this short version of WHY?
VW and BMW guys are very much alike. Aircooled, Oppossed Cylinders, German technology, it was just a natural order for it to be I guess.
The biggest reason for putting a VW into a BMW /2 was to pull a sidecar!
Mid 1960's, some builders tinkered with the own builds. Helmut Hamm being one of them was so far ahead of his time it blows most away he used the VW motor as a stressed member to make his frame work.
Late 60 and early 70's, 2 Cal. BMW dealers started selling them as a complete bike or as a kit. With 2 more significant kit builders doing the same as time went on.
Altho never seen in print. Many speculated Honda followed this platform with the opposed water cooled Gold Wing model.
There is a site dedicated to these bikes. Altho small, believe it or not, these bikes have a following.
Yahoo Groups has a site called "vwmotorcycles" check it out. |
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2weel Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 229 Location: Right in the middle of Coastal Cali.
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:21 pm Post subject: Price |
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Prices?
Eye of the beholder?
These bikes use to sell for very little 10 years ago. Today the gas tank on the bike for sale for 6K in the Portland CL is worth as it sits, anywhere from $1200 to $1500 dollars MINIMUM!Probably bring more. This is what Sport tanks bring these days that are straight and need to be painted. That is just the gas tank! Transmissions bring HUGE dollars! I could go on about the BMW parts. The sidecar? A sidecar with all the mounts like this one as shabby as a condition it is in, worst case scenario bring $2500 to 3K EASY! And this rig is all together. No hunting for parts that don't fit. IT is ALL there.
AGAIN. I have NO affiliation with this guy at all. I did call and talk to him tho.
Now for the , I want to build one someday? Or man, it would be cool to have one some day? I highly recommend you check this one out. I know of no frame kits available anymore. You can fabricate tho. Transmission adapters? There a a couple still floating around. Finding a /2 BMW FORGET IT! Junk frames with some parts command big bucks. That and BMW guys will give you the stink eye if you cut up a good /2 in this day and age.
One just sold a couple months ago on Ebay that had real starting problems and looked a lil better than this one cleaned up for 6K. NO sidecar attached.
Hope this helps. |
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BL3Manx Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 6767 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Good info! Do you know if anyone has used a /5 as the basis for a VMW. Non-runners seem cheap and plentiful. |
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2weel Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 229 Location: Right in the middle of Coastal Cali.
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:53 am Post subject: |
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BL3Manx wrote: |
Good info! Do you know if anyone has used a /5 as the basis for a VMW. Non-runners seem cheap and plentiful. |
I have never heard or have ever seen one.
/5's are the next /2, the prices are rising significantly since they were only made from 1970-73. Most wanted a tug for their sidecar and the /2 with the Earls front end was really was the best candidate for the conversion. If you want to do one? Now is the time. Better yet this one that started this discussion is on CL in Portland OR is one heck of a deal. It's all there just needs to be sorted out.
1968- 69 CB 750's arrive. KZ 900 shows up soon after. Reliable powerful bikes (with BRAKES) which made the period of converting a /2 not such a good dollar choice any longer.
Then again, the pic's I posted at the top of this thread show, you could build one like Bud Burkey. Blown and fuel injected. This guy is over the top talented! |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20230 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Cool stuff. thanks for posting up the info. I guess I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for a barn find that is more in my price range.
A friend of mine has an early 60's R60 in pieces, that appears to be complete except for one big part. The frame. I have been trying to get him to let go of it for awhile. Maybe it's time to give him a call again. _________________ nothing |
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2weel Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 229 Location: Right in the middle of Coastal Cali.
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Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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cdennisg wrote: |
Cool stuff. thanks for posting up the info. I guess I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for a barn find that is more in my price range.
A friend of mine has an early 60's R60 in pieces, that appears to be complete except for one big part. The frame. I have been trying to get him to let go of it for awhile. Maybe it's time to give him a call again. |
NO affiliation. A guy emailed me just this morning with this. If I was closer and had room for it I would buy it!
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/4127378003.html
It's your lucky day. If its not bent? It is in Huntington Beach. CA.
Here is his name and # Mark at 7one4 330 one489
I know it says local pick up only? That's 160 miles from me. I bet someone near there who participates on The Samba could pick it and drop it off at a Grey hound Bus depot for you. I use UPS. Well, haven't shipped a frame in 5 or 6 years but they do it. They cant hurt it. |
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2weel Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 229 Location: Right in the middle of Coastal Cali.
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Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:31 pm Post subject: Close up of Bud's motor |
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Realized I did not post a pic of Bud's motor up close.
Check out the skull on the chin fairing he made.
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20230 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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2weel wrote: |
cdennisg wrote: |
Cool stuff. thanks for posting up the info. I guess I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for a barn find that is more in my price range.
A friend of mine has an early 60's R60 in pieces, that appears to be complete except for one big part. The frame. I have been trying to get him to let go of it for awhile. Maybe it's time to give him a call again. |
NO affiliation. A guy emailed me just this morning with this. If I was closer and had room for it I would buy it!
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/4127378003.html
It's your lucky day. If its not bent? It is in Huntington Beach. CA.
Here is his name and # Mark at 7one4 330 one489
I know it says local pick up only? That's 160 miles from me. I bet someone near there who participates on The Samba could pick it and drop it off at a Grey hound Bus depot for you. I use UPS. Well, haven't shipped a frame in 5 or 6 years but they do it. They cant hurt it. |
Would buying a bare frame without having any of the other parts available be like putting the cart before the horse?
I need to see if the rest of the R60 is even up for grabs before I buy a frame. Would make a good wall hanger, though.
My uncle is a long time biker in the upper Midwest and he knows all of the old timers and junkyards from Montana to Ohio. He said he could find me a frame when the time comes. Plus it would give me a good excuse to take a road trip and visit my family. _________________ nothing |
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2weel Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 229 Location: Right in the middle of Coastal Cali.
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Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:07 am Post subject: |
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If you are planning on someday doing a VMW it's a lot easier to buy one complete than it is sourcing the parts. If you have access to a good machinist or are one yourself it can be done. VMW's weakest link is the driveline
OR? if you want one like Bud's builds that would incorporate modern suspension and brakes may be the better choice. He runs all kinds of power thru the bikes he builds. |
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BL3Manx Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 6767 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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He's also using a VW transaxle as his transmission. Looks like he locks up the differential and mounts a sprocket in place of a CV joint. |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20230 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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2weel wrote: |
If you are planning on someday doing a VMW it's a lot easier to buy one complete than it is sourcing the parts. If you have access to a good machinist or are one yourself it can be done. VMW's weakest link is the driveline
OR? if you want one like Bud's builds that would incorporate modern suspension and brakes may be the better choice. He runs all kinds of power thru the bikes he builds. |
I am not necessarily looking to build a VMW, I just like that concept and would consider one if it became available to me at the right time. An R60, or an R75 or R90 would be just fine for me with the BMW powerplant . _________________ nothing |
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2weel Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 229 Location: Right in the middle of Coastal Cali.
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2weel Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 229 Location: Right in the middle of Coastal Cali.
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject: SOLD |
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Shows it sold for $12,000.00 WOWSERS |
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2weel Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 229 Location: Right in the middle of Coastal Cali.
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Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:41 am Post subject: A really nice Willis 4's up 4 sale |
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This Willis 4's VMW just went up for sale in Fresno California. NO Affiliation.
Anyone looking for one might want to check this one out.
http://fresno.craigslist.org/mcy/4209461626.html
Ad read as follows:
"Designed and Built in Fresno, Ca. in the 70's by Roger Willis and Bruce Butterfield . Aprox. 20 Bikes Built. This Bike was Completely and Professionally Redone in "2003"...Sitting in my Office for 10 years "Never Rode"
This Bike is "ONE OF A KIND"
Harley-3 1/2 Gal tanks, Dash, Speedo, Bars, Brakes and Controls & Stands.
Dual Disc Brakes in Front...All New Chrome & Polishing...Black-Black with
Red Pin Striping. This is a Truly First Class Bike and was invited to the "AutoRama"
several times. A Must see in Person. 15,000. will consider all resonable offers.
Call John ...,Day 9am.-4:30pm. (559) 268-4623...evening (559) 237-3014
***NO TEXT both numbers are landline phones. Will only respond to emails with name and number. " |
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2weel Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2007 Posts: 229 Location: Right in the middle of Coastal Cali.
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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:59 pm Post subject: SOLD |
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Just called the owner and he said it sold today! Almost full asking price. |
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BL3Manx Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 6767 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: VW Powered Motorcycles and Sidecars |
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Farther down in the article, an interesting sidecar. A true sidecar, not a trike. Unfortunately, I don't belive he's still in business
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fonzy33 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2011 Posts: 3 Location: Saskatoon
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:18 am Post subject: Re: VW Powered Motorcycles and Sidecars |
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BL3Manx wrote: |
Farther down in the article, an interesting sidecar. A true sidecar, not a trike. Unfortunately, I don't belive he's still in business
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i want .... |
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