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Installing aftermarket turn signal switch
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Installing aftermarket turn signal switch Reply with quote

url=http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=574608&highlight=turn+signal+switch]Installing aftermarket turn signal switch[/url]

Guys,
I'm replacing a turn signal switch in a 1971 bus. The original switch which was also aftermarket had a completely different set of wire colors. The new switch looks like it's more in line with the original color coding. My problem is matching them up with the colors in the bus. Here's a pic of the wiring diagram.

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Can anyone please identify the colors and locations for me? Some are obvious like the brown but the bus has colors that I don't readily see in the diagram. Look at VR and HR and the one above them. They all look like green/black to me. VL and HL both look like their black/white. The one towards the upper left looks like it's purple/black but the switch doesn't have a purple/black. This sucks.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may help, wrong relay & hazard switch but the same colors:
54St is the brake lights from the hazard switch
HL is left rear
HR is right rear
VR is right front
VL is left front
54Bl is 49a from the flasher relay
S is high beam
31 is the ground

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aeromech
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, here's a blow up

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Thanks BD. I always have Telford nearby if I can't figure it out on my own. He's helped a buddy up the street with his, OB Bus (Larry).
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the Bentley wiring diagram is SUPPOSED to show is the same wire colors on either side of that T5 connector. If you have an original
TS switch on hand, you will see that the soldered wire connections are marked (with the symbols used in the wiring diagram). The crappy aftermarket switches are not marked, but the wires go to the same spots as the original. So, no matter what wacky wire colors the Chinese (or whoever) had on hand when they made the switch, you
can tell from its position what the original wire color was, and where it's supposed to be connected to the rest of the wiring harness.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Installing aftermarket turn signal switch Reply with quote

What colors does the bus have?

I struggled with this when I bought the bus without a turn signal lever. Shocked In my notebook I wrote:

Quote:

matched the brown wires first: solid, then brown/white.
match the red/black, yellow/black, and purple/black to their respective partners.

two wires left on the bus: green/black and green/white/black.
two wires left on the switch, both green/black - guess.
first guess incorrect- wrong bulbs flashing, second guess = all four working.


Not sure if that helps, but I have the same 4-pin flasher relay that a '71 would have, and I bought the "68-71 lever"
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And all of this because these aftermarket people can't be bothered to use the proper striped colored wires (or a labeled drawing)...

Generally, with these aftermarket switches, I just buzz out the new switch by function and make a chart of the wire colors and their function. Then I write the stock wire color next to the new color. After that, plug and go.

If the stock wires are too hard to decode the color or are otherwise messed up, then connect each one to +12 through a headlight bulb (acts as a resettable fuse), see which turn light lights up, and label the wire with some masking tape. Now correlate labels with new switch wire color, plug, and go.

Note this takes a while (and some head scratching) to get right...

There's only 8 wires (or 64 possible combinations)....

Give me a call if you need a hand.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

telford dorr wrote:
There's only 8 wires (or 64 possible combinations)....

Pfffftttt......how hard could that be? Razz

I keep forgetting about this from the gallery which may or may not be helpful in your situation:

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aeromech
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help everyone. I'm making notes and diagrams today and when I get home I hope to have it figured out.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Excellent! (Function labels added)

Here's a method of identifying the new switch wires:

1) The high beam / low beam wire pair should be easy to find by inspection of the switch. That leaves 6 wires.

2) Note that 4 of the wires go to only 1 place on the switch and that 2 go to 2 places on the switch.

a) The 4 wires going to only one place on the switch go to lamps (2 front, 2 rear)

b) The 2 wires going to 2 places on the switch are signal input wires: 1 from the flasher, 1 from the brake switch.

Now you've got the wires separated into groups.

3) With the switch in the middle (non-turning) position, you will find continuity between 1 of the 2 input wires and 2 of the lamp wires. The input wire is the brake switch input, making the other wire the flasher input. The 2 lamp wires must be rear turn lamps.

Now you've got the brake and flasher wires identified, and the pair of rear and (by default) front lamp wires identified.

4) Move the turn switch to the left turn position. You will have continuity between the flasher wire and one of the front lamp wires and one of the rear lamp wires. label the lamp wires 'front left' and 'rear left'.

5) The remaining 2 wires must be front right and rear right.

The switch is now completely labeled.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tel,
The latest aftermarket switch that I'm installing has all the same wire colors as the bus except the purple/black. Instead it has a grey/black. I'm hoping those Chinamen were good enough to get the 7 out of 8 right at least.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With any luck...

On Larry's new switch, they substituted solid colors for the (easy) striped ones: black/yellow became solid yellow, etc. On the rest, they used random solid colors.

Personally, I'd buzz it out on the bench with an ohmmeter to verify the colors and their functions before wasting a lot of inverted time under the dash...
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To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research - Steven Wright

In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh

All models are wrong; some are useful - George Box

More VW electrical at http://flowcon.us/td/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)


Last edited by telford dorr on Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's already installed so I'm going to give hooking up the wires another shot. Of course, if that doesn't work I'll need to get deeper into it.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I (for some reason) saved Larry's old switch (also an east asian product). It matches the description of your new switch: all colors (sort of) stock (the black/white/green is a black/white with green dots hand painted on to the white stripe) except the black/purple brake switch wire, which is black/gray. It has really cheesy crimp terminals badly installed (they didn't crimp the wire insulation as they should have), barely hanging on the wires...
Aftermarket Switch
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Bad Crimps
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'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones

To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research - Steven Wright

In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh

All models are wrong; some are useful - George Box

More VW electrical at http://flowcon.us/td/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)


Last edited by telford dorr on Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
It's already installed so I'm going to give hooking up the wires another shot. Of course, if that doesn't work I'll need to get deeper into it.

Let me know if you need a hand. Saturday's open...
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'71 panel, now with FI

'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones

To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research - Steven Wright

In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh

All models are wrong; some are useful - George Box

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aeromech
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Larry replaced an aftermarket switch with another aftermarket switch just like I'm doing. Sure looks like the same manufacturer. Yes, the wire is a black/white with small green dots and hard to recognize without a careful look.

Let me know if you need a hand. Saturday's open...

I appreciate the offer. Let me give it another shot this afternoon and I'll come back with a report.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Late addition:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Note the after-market non-stock brake switch wire color - black/gray. Should be black/purple. Also, the black/white flasher wire has green dots hand-painted on near the terminal end of the wire, but not at the switch.

This should make troubleshooting with a test light easier.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since the OP is dealing with a '71 bus, it should be noted that in this case the (originally) purple/black wire comes to the T/S switch from the emergency flasher switch, and not the brake switch as described.
That might be a U.S.-specific dea, though.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is slightly off-topic - but I'm doing the same thing on an OG switch that someone cut all the wires off of. How long do they need to be - ???
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scrivyscriv wrote:
This is slightly off-topic - but I'm doing the same thing on an OG switch that someone cut all the wires off of. How long do they need to be - ???


About 10 inches
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kreemoweet wrote:
Since the OP is dealing with a '71 bus, it should be noted that in this case the (originally) purple/black wire comes to the T/S switch from the emergency flasher switch, and not the brake switch as described.

Yes - I was glossing over that detail so as to not add confusion to the task at hand. The brake signal passes through the emergency flasher switch on the way to the turn signal switch. This is how the rear lamps are flashed (and why the brake lights don't work) in emergency flash mode.
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'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones

To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research - Steven Wright

In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh

All models are wrong; some are useful - George Box

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