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Terry Kay
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Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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 Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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I was pretty sure the video would make this project really simple.
How now brown cow?
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randywebb
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Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
Graduate from hammer & chisel work,& into the new millenium.
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Tharg LIKE hammer. Hammer good.
Tharg like chisel too. Chisel good. Chisel advanced technology.
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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WiboBusMan
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Joined: September 26, 2009
Posts: 141
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:25 pm Post subject: What about tightening the bolt... |
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Great, lively discussion. I'll add my 2¢ worth by sharing a little old mechanic's trick that works maybe 25% of the time. Worth a try before resorting to the nukes.
If you have a moderately seized bolt or nut, that you just know is going to give you trouble, sometimes, instead of trying to torque it off, if you initially actually tighten it, just a little, just enough to hear it or feel it give a little crack (maybe no more that a few degrees or so) it then may back out easily.
Tapping with a hammer can sometimes work, and I will tap not only axially, but radially too - sometimes it is corrosion just around the rim not too deep that you can loosen in this way.
I agree that for a heavily corroded, badly seized broken bolt, when you can weld a nut , it really can work wonders.
I will usually heat it really hot sometimes adding lots of metal to the end of the nut just to add the extra heat, then spray a bit of oil (penetrating or other relatively thin oil) at the base of the bolt. Careful, you will often get a flame-out!
The oil will partially vaporize leading to significant thermal contraction of the bolt, breaking away what binds it, and the liquid oil, thinned by the heat will get sucked into the threads by a combination of thermal contraction and capillary action - that's my theory anyway.
It'll usually back out pretty easily then.
WiboBusMan
1984 Westfalia
1988 tintop Syncro (sold)
1986 Transporter Syncro Doka 1.8t (Yeeehaw!) |
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61Scout
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Location: Shoreline/Yakima WA
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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I totally forgot about this tool for this stuck stud syndrome.
It's shake that bolt loose & outa there in a short time--come hell or high water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6T-PcqmKJhE
Bingo-Bango it'll be outa there.
No welding, not heat, no PB blaster.
Cave man technology at it's best. 
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dhaavers
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Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7757
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:22 am Post subject: |
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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sanchius 
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Joined: May 03, 2007
Posts: 1456
Location: IN
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:07 am Post subject: |
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It looks like it may be time for the nuclear option.
I was expecting one of the pro machinist here to suggest this, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so here it is.
The Snap-On collet set is an awesome tool, I love using it.
When I didn't have access to it, drilling out the stud and hammering in an ezout usually worked for me.
But there was one time for me when neither worked...
A Jaguar guru machinist friend was helping me rebuild my Jaguar XK motor years ago.
I was retapping a deep thread in the aluminum XK head when the hardened tap broke off inside the head.
There was no getting it out with conventional methods and I thought I had just ruined a very expensive head.
As a last resort before tossing the head in the bin, he used a fairly strong acid to melt away the broken steel tap over the course of a week without affecting the aluminum.
I was stunned/amazed to see this work and I used that head for years afterwards.
Of course, YMMV, use at your own risk and you'd probably want to drill away as much stud metal as possible before applying the acid.
A quick google of "acid aluminum head broken stud" gave this up:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technic...studs.html |
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Terry Kay
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Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32638
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Is it the tool?
Probably not, though experience had taught me that the proper tool often makes a horrid job palatable!
Is it the confidence a good tool instills? ...... Probably plays into it as well.
Is it dumb luck? ....... I prefer to think that there are a smidgen of skills that come into play.
Nevertheless, my studs are out. Yes, I used my OXY/ACY torch and heated the Aluminum.
This Snap On CG500 with the 500-37 (8mm x 1.25) collet gripped that threaded stud tighter than a  ........ And allowed me to carefully back it out being cautious to not get too greedy...... Baby steps...... Lubrication..... In and out.... Back and forth......
I guess insyncro doesn't have to pay me for the tool....... Now to collect more collets............ If you've got duplicates, donations are freely accepted!
Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32638
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Thought I'd post a photo of the final broken stud I got out awhile back.
Exhaust Stud, broken off about 1/16" below the aluminum casting.
I first drilled it all the way through with a 1/8" left bit, opened it up with a 3/16" left bit but the stud held fast! Doing this releases the outward pressure on the threads allowing more movement when you heat the assembly.
I took a Fender Washer with a 1/8" hole, drilled that to 3/16" and then took a drift, inserted it in the hole and with the taper against the hole whacked it hard to cause the washer hole to deform to a convex shape so it sat flush against the broken stud.
Welded the washer securely to the broken stud using the hole in the washer.
I then welded and old nut to the washer
Put a wrench on the nut and unscrewed the whole assembly while it was all still hot from being welded.
Easy as pie! You can see the wire fed right through the hole I drilled!
Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Howesight
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Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3274
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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I have found that welding a nubbin onto a broken stud often creates enough heat to allow it to be turned out with vise-grips - - no nut needed and hence, super quick extraction. This is only useful if there is space to use vise grips. Otherwise, you have to use the nut method.
Another observation: Your welded-on nubbin or nut may break off. Don't be discouraged - - just weld on a new nubbin or nut. This is far faster than drilling, banging, penetrating oil, etc, even if you have to do it three times!
If there is space and you have the skills, I have found that a stick welder is somewhat more effective than the MIG, but any stud still on the vehicle will probably limit you to the MIG welder. I might just be doing this wrong, but I have always pulled out the stud while it is still very hot and not waited for it to cool at all. Remember that the stud and the threaded hole it sits in were designed with clearance - - they are not tapered. It is the bonds of the corroded metal oxides in the thread gap that you are trying to upset by heat.
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sub-hatchtim
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Joined: September 19, 2006
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Location: Phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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heat enough so expansion occurs apply candle wax allow the bolt/stud to cool
the expansion will allow for the liquid wax to seep into the threads and viola
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58 Dove blue singlecab
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Vanagon Nut
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Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
All's ya have to know is how to get the right amount of heat & wire outa the end of that goose neck on the end of the feed hose of the mig welder, into the nut & the end of the stud--complete penetration.
Then count to ten, and remove it.
Done.
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Good to see what gear he used. I have the same brand MIG (140) And ya. It's paid for itself in many ways. Nice to see he was able to get enough penetration and heat using a 110 VAC MIG.
I'm more or less speaking for myself here, but I think there can be some hesitation in using a welder in or on the vehicle. This may be one main reason some don't go that route.
Thanks Terry.
Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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djkeev
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dobryan
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Vanagon Nut
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Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: |
I think a lot of people don't use welders on broken bolts, but instead resort to other less successful methods, is simply that they do not own a welder.
Dave |
What? Doesn't every Vanagon owner have one? 
Yah, they're an outlay of cash. Especially when you include a decent size shielding gas tank. But good point. Haven't looked but I bet decent lower hour MIG setups can be found used for a reasonable price.
Neil.
"temporary" repair that is still holding up. Haven't tried the welding technique yet. Maybe doing that on this (repaired) stuck bolt would have had poor results?
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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T3 Pilot
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Posts: 1507
Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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For when you can't use heat, or don't have a welder use this:
Quickcenter
http://www.quikcenter.com/application.htm
Works consistently well.
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1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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RicoS
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Joined: December 02, 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
"temporary" repair that is still holding up. Haven't tried the welding technique yet. Maybe doing that on this (repaired) stuck bolt would have had poor results?
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What in the HELL is this? |
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insyncro
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Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| RicoS wrote: |
| What in the HELL is this? |
Fine art |
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Jake de Villiers
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