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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3048 Location: MD
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Broken Bolts / Studs..... What's the SECRET? |
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I think you are fully into the janky repairs territory if you don't pull the head. I'm not sure you can get good enough heat into the head to weld it, if you can weld aluminum, if the head is still on the engine. So...
Jam a good bit of JB Weld SteelStik down the hole, thread a bolt in, then remove the bolt. Jam a bit more in. Thread the bolt in and out. Then a minute later thread the bolt back in, and out, etc. You want to keep the threads clean. Wait 24 hours for that to really set. Maybe chase the threads. That might be enough to "fix" it. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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dschaftlein Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2016 Posts: 105
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Broken Bolts / Studs..... What's the SECRET? |
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I was replacing my old rotten exhaust today and broke a header bolt just below the surface of the head. No big deal I’ve had good success with drilling out broken bolts before.
Well I should have walked away and dealt with it tomorrow in the daylight. Despite stopping and checking the depth I still managed to drill too deep. My heart sank when coolant started gushing out of the hole. How embarrassing!
Does anyone have any thoughts on a repair? I’m hoping I don’t have to pull the head to repair or replace it.
I was thinking about installing a stud in the hole with some hi temp sealant Or jb weld it and hope for the best... any thoughts?
Last edited by dschaftlein on Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Broken Bolts / Studs..... What's the SECRET? |
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Quoted entire post and added here......
jlrftype7 wrote: |
Mods, feel free to move this as need, wasn't sure of the right Forum to post in:....
Recently I needed to 'dissolve' 2 lug studs on an older Jaguar Sedan due to the really bad habit of their small lug nuts seizing to the studs, then shearing in half when you try to remove the rounded lug nut with the usual special Removal Sockets made for rounded nuts of all kinds.
So, it's Drill time. Only, due to fairly robust construction of the Lug Studs, regular Drill bits don't really make a dent on these studs, which is weird, but true.
Enter the Matco Hyperstep Drill Bits. These aren't mine, I had to borrow them for the work, and WOW, did they ever work, stunning actually.
I'm adding pictures so you can see how to apply using the Drill bits to broken bolts and studs on your VW. You don't need to buy a whole set, Matco will sell single bits as needed, this would allow you to just buy what you want, as needed for an exhaust stud on a Cyl. Head, etc.
The tip of the drill bits is where the Step wording comes in. They look like tiny versions of a Unibit on their cutting edge. VERY fast cutting, but you have control as well, so if you don't want the bit to self feed with hand drilling, it won't. I went the normal Pilot Hole method, then up 2 sizes at a time after that. What I noticed right away with the larger bits is that once you run out of the Pilot Hole and bottom out as normal, these bits just keep drilling almost as easily as if the smaller Pilot Hole was still there.
They're just that aggressive and sharp. I used regular old Sulfur Cutting Oil since the work was all steel, the drilling temps seem to stay way under what a normal 118 to 135 degree bit tip profile would have given me for this job, so the HyperStep Bits seem to cut cooler as well.
I haven't had a need to add to my drill bit collection in years, my 'Good" set from Wurth, the old Lighting Drill Bits was my go-to set for anything that my regular Cobalt Drill Bits were struggling with. Not any more, I'll have to get a set of these Drill bits from Matco....
I doubt Matco makes them, but I think for now they have a sales lock on the bits until that expires and we see them for sale elsewhere. Matco is sweetening the deal with a Lifetime Warranty on the sizes above 1/4" I think.
https://www.matcotools.com/catalog/power-tools/accessories/drill-bits/best-drill-bits/hyper-step/ |
_________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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swharris Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010 Posts: 502 Location: N. Orange County
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Broken Bolts / Studs..... What's the SECRET? |
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Well, one more post confirming the weld-O-nut strategy. Had a stud that was stuck incredibly bad. I snapped off at the surface. I luckily could get an 1/8th of a turn of a rocker nut on it. Welded it up solid and then shocked it with "Freeze Off" and with a few back and forths she came out clean. Threads were easily cleaned up. It's worth getting the welder out. I will go this route from now on.
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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MarkWard wrote: |
Quality bolts are rated among other things for clamping force. What you see in the picture is "clamping" force. Gets you down the road and cheaper than a rental car. |
Heh heh. Ya, it got me down the road then down another, and another and..... it never failed.
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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swharris Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010 Posts: 502 Location: N. Orange County
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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insyncro wrote: |
Someone put Grade 8 bolts in place of the Grade 12 studs....not advised.
Hence your issues after all of those heat cycles.
A collet type stud puller (not the cheesy wedge style), mine is a Snap On, will remove those in less than a minute. |
This is good if the threads are not damaged at the end, allowing threading on of the above tool. But, if the end is buggered up and damaged from previous attempts with say a vice grip, the threaded collet tool is a no go. |
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warmblood58 Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 331
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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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and part of the problem of dissimilar metals reacting with each other via electrolysis and galvanic corrosion . . . I got lucky with heat and wax recently. Year ago, I did volvo exhaust manifold studs that were well known to snap easily upon removal - the process took five days of heating/pb blaster soaks. Sometimes, time is your friend but it is a pain to proceed so slowly! |
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Halifaxwesty Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012 Posts: 213 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Had awesome success getting this exhaust stud out...hammer on sacrificial 8mm socket.....small bead of weld...and 3/8th impact...out first try...
After heating it red hot...and using some lube no luck.... _________________ 84 Westfalia Vanagon
2.2 RMW Conversion
Work in Progress
My first car was a 1968 VW Bug |
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kalispell365 Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2010 Posts: 889 Location: PNW
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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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I often use these with quick bursts delivered with a 3/8 impact gun. You can use smaller sizes for broken studs, they really grip!
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=641938&group_ID=680941
**************
Moderator added photo of item being linked.........
_________________ 1983 Diesel Vanagon Westfalia chassis with Subaru 2.2l |
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pushkick Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2007 Posts: 1366
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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject: boltls |
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i guess if you had to you could take it to a machinist and they could use a water jet if you cant get a grip on the broken bolt. _________________ i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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pushkick Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2007 Posts: 1366
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:06 am Post subject: remove broken bolts |
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i would think if you could take the head or whatever part to a machinist they could mill out the broken bolt very easily with a direct plunge bit. _________________ i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50351
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I am thinking of buying an induction heater. That way I can heat a broken stud or bolt red hot from one end to the other while inside the aluminium head or case.
Two summers ago I spend way too many hours trying to remove the exhaust studs from a Type 4 head and was quite afraid that I had used so much heat that the heads would give trouble in short order after being put back in service. I also have at home a couple of WBXer blocks with sheared head studs that an experienced mechanic gave up on.
I might start by finding a rental induction unit and seeing how it works to learn whether it is worth the price or no. |
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Merian Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014 Posts: 5212 Location: Orygun
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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That piece of "art" is why others make fun of VW owners. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17154 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Quality bolts are rated among other things for clamping force. What you see in the picture is "clamping" force. Gets you down the road and cheaper than a rental car. _________________ ☮️ |
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Jake de Villiers Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 5911 Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: |
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RicoS wrote: |
What in the HELL is this? |
Fine art |
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RicoS Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 583
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Vanagon Nut wrote: |
"temporary" repair that is still holding up. Haven't tried the welding technique yet. Maybe doing that on this (repaired) stuck bolt would have had poor results?
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What in the HELL is this? |
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T3 Pilot Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011 Posts: 1507 Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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For when you can't use heat, or don't have a welder use this:
Quickcenter
http://www.quikcenter.com/application.htm
Works consistently well. _________________ 1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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djkeev wrote: |
I think a lot of people don't use welders on broken bolts, but instead resort to other less successful methods, is simply that they do not own a welder.
Dave |
What? Doesn't every Vanagon owner have one?
Yah, they're an outlay of cash. Especially when you include a decent size shielding gas tank. But good point. Haven't looked but I bet decent lower hour MIG setups can be found used for a reasonable price.
Neil.
"temporary" repair that is still holding up. Haven't tried the welding technique yet. Maybe doing that on this (repaired) stuck bolt would have had poor results?
_________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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