1971 Elm Green A/T FI Squareback

[notchboy]

Great preservation. Good to see her indoors and protected. Now you can put a nice coat of wax on her
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[Donnie strickland]

It just got a wash job the other day!
It spent most of its life garaged, but for the last 4 years/35,000 miles it's been outside. I'm glad to be able to keep it inside again.
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71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback

[Donnie strickland]

Well it was four years and about 40,000 miles ago yesterday when I made my purchase...

A few weeks ago I had a little problem. At random intervals, the engine would shut off for 2-3 seconds. This was a binary, on/off condition, there was no sputtering; it simply would quit running, and then as the car coasted it would resume running again. I suspected an intermittent contact somewhere, or to a lesser extent perhaps a fuel delivery problem.

But I couldn't get it to happen to the point where I could troubleshoot. It never happened at idle, it was only when the car was being driven -- but it wasn't temperature related. It might happen 10 seconds after I drove out of the garage, or after I'd been driving 30 minutes. Then it might not happen for 4-5 days. Once the car shut completely off and wouldn't restart for 10 minutes, but when it did start, it ran perfectly for 4 days.

Then one morning I went to start it and it wouldn't hit. At last, I could see what it was, hopefully. First I checked the FI power relay under the back seat, and then the fuel pump relay under the dash. Both of them were fine. I attached my fuel pressure gauge, and quickly ruled that out. The pump was running fine and the pressure was rock steady while cranking. So, it wasn't lack of fuel.

I checked for spark -- fine. I checked the spark plugs, although I didn't feel they would be the problem. The were also fine.

I went through the FI harness, pulling the wires out of the connectors and tightening the plugs a little, so I could rule that out. No change.

I pulled the trigger points; they looked all right, they were clean and properly lubed. I replaced them with a spare set since I had the distributor out anyway. No joy.

I wondered if my ECU might be on the fritz, but those rarely have any serious problems, so I kept looking elsewhere.

Jim Adney suggested checking the MPS to see if it would hold a vacuum, and so I pulled the hose off of it and checked it; it was fine. I put the hose back on the MPS, being careful not to touch anything else. The car started right up.

I really doubted that could have made any difference, but I decided to send the MPS and my distributor to Jim. He could open up the MPS and see if there was anything going on inside it, and my distributor needed a rebuild anyway. I mentioned to Jim that this past March I had replaced my Bosch Temp Sensor II with a new Bus Depot unit for trial purposes, and he asked if I had tried the old one yet. I had not, although I had checked to see if mine was tight and the wire was making good connection with the harness.

I found when removing my distributor that the vacuum can had a ruptured diaphragm, which must have happened in the last 3,000 miles since it was good when I checked it at the last tuneup. Also, I found that the MPS on my car had a part number starting with 022 -- it was for a Type 4!

I sent the parts to Jim, and he returned my distributor, rebuilt, with an NOS vacuum can, and a correct "C" MPS for my 1971 system. I put the new parts on, and two days later, the same problem. So, I decided to reinstall the Bosch Temp Sensor II. Bingo. The car runs fine. Replace with the new sensor, the problem returns.

I checked the sensor out of the car with my multimeter, and it intermittently goes open, at seemingly random intervals. This causes the ECU to open the injectors too long, to the point that the engine can't even run because the mixture is so rich, killing it in a matter of milliseconds. I don't know, of course, if it's just this one sensor or if others have had this problem.

Now it's 10 days and about 600 miles later, and the car is running as well as it ever has. Still getting 26 mpg, same as before, and still enjoying that butter-smooth throttle response you get from an FI car. I'm commuting 60 miles a day now, which is mostly 2-lane US 78, and enjoying the car more than ever. A shot from today:

So if anyone is using a Bus Depot sensor and experiences this symptom, you might want to check it out. As I say, it might be just this one sensor that's had a problem, and I'm glad they've stepped up since Bosch quit making these. It's just something else to check.
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71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback

[KTPhil]

Thanks for the info and update.

I bought one of those temp sensors as a spare, but haven't had to use it yet. I'm not sure bench testing it will tell me anything, but now I have one more thing to worry about!

[Donnie strickland]

That's why I put mine on as soon as I got it -- I wanted to see how it would hold up. It worked fine from March until October...I've thought about taking it apart to see what I can find, but I haven't done anything yet.
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71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback

[raygreenwood]

By the way....there is not much significant difference between,the type 4 B and C and the type 3 C MPS.

I have swapped them back and forth readily. Its a throttle response difference and takes a minor adjustment.
Ray

[Donnie strickland]

[Donnie strickland]

I took off my driver's side door panel to lube the window regulator, since the window was getting balky when trying to lower it. I did find that three of the four regulator bolts were loose. The door after I peeled the vapor barrier back:

And a closeup of the fabric on the arm rest clip on the inside of the panel, put there to keep it from rattling when hooked over the finger on the door. Obviously the factory used whatever fabric was at hand:

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71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback

[EverettB]

I regret to inform the Forum that Donnie Strickland has passed away.

The family has asked me to post as they want to sell his car and would like to get a guess on current value.

If anyone has some opinions as they are familiar with the car or want to review the thread again, please post.

One comment they sent

[notchboy]

[Bobnotch]

[Everett Strickland]

Hello all! I'm Everett Strickland I'm not sure if anyone will even see this but I'm Donnie Strickland's son and recently, I've been wanting to get the ol' 71 Sqaureback up and running. It's been sitting at my grandmothers house just wasting away and I hate seeing it like that so I decided I'd try this out and see if I can get some help with getting it back running!

[Multi69s]

Everett,

You've come to right place. I sort of hop around the different Samba forums, because I have a couple of different cars. However, the Type 3 forum is by far the most helpful and friendly forum on the sight.
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69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[Everett Strickland]

Since the squareback has been sitting, it seems that the fuel lines have corroded and we started it a couple weeks ago and it poured out gas. The transmission fluid leak is still constant and I believe there’s something with the turn signal fuse? I’m not nearly as savvy with VW’s as my father was and I never got to have any of that passed to me so I’m hoping I can get some help from here.

[Multi69s]

When you say that the fuel lines are corroded, are you talking about the metal lines or the flexible lines? If its the flexible lines, that is kind of normal after a few years. This modern ethanol fuel is really hard on the rubber in the lines. You can expect to change them about every two years.

I haven't looked at this post for a while. What type of transmission (manual / automatic) is it and where is it leaking from?
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69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[Everett Strickland]

The flexible fuel lines are the ones the are corrected and the transmission is an automatic, the fluid leaks from a pan of some sort that’s warped. It’s a very slow leak so I just have to top it off every now and again.

[Multi69s]

On the auto tran's pan, sometimes the metal around the bolt holes on the pan gets pushed up from being over tightened. That is why they "usually" leak. One thing you can do is to drain the fluid and remove the pan. If the metal is pushed up, run a piece of wood in the channel were the bolt heads would be. Then take a hammer and lightly tap the high spots down until they are flush with the rest of the sealing area. Of course it really depends on how bad it leaks, versus how much work you want to do. If its not too bad, park it over a piece of cardboard, and keep an eye on the fluid level.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[Everett Strickland]

It’s a pretty slow leak but I’m pretty sure my dad tried just about anything and he could never get it to stop but I’ll definitely give that a try. I’m still waiting to get a chance to replace the fuel lines but I’ll update whenever I do.

[Bobnotch]

If you're replacing the fuel hoses, get 25 feet of 5/16ths fuel hose, and do ALL of it at the same time. This way you know it's ALL been replaced, and you shouldn't have any fuel leaks (unless you didn't get a clamp tight). I'm pretty sure your dad did this as well, way back when he started getting the car road worthy. I realize this could get expensive, but in reality it's cheap insurance.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[Everett Strickland]

I’ll make sure to do that, thank you so much! There’s something with the turn signals but I’ll get that pinned down whenever I get the chance to work on it and ask from there.