| Author |
Message |
SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:32 am Post subject: Type 87 Replica... any info? |
 |
|
I'm looking into building a 4WD Split based (on looks alone) on the Type 87 that's currently in the museum in Germany.
I'll be using a dead Oval shell, a split rear window section and Vanagon Syncro running gear and chassis.
A bit different I'll grant you but I'm trying to use parts that would otherwise be dead and not usable as I don't like the idea of cutting up old VWs 
I know that this particular Type 87 (in the photo) was modified away from factory spec with wider wings, roller at the front etc but does anyone else have any more info on this car please?
Any more detailed photos?
Thanks
MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ckissick
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2006
Posts: 498
Location: Bay Area
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't have any info. I just want to say that would be very cool.
_________________
Charlie
1950 Beetle
1983 Westfalia
1989 syncro Tristar
1966 Porsche 912
1989 Beck Spyder
2007 GTI Fahrenheit |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sgmalt46
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2005
Posts: 1296
Location: south san francisco
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
the one in the photo is original from 46 . they made 2 like that. it is factory with the roller apron .ect.. one is in the museum and the other one is in a private collection as far as i know. i think the vanangon drive train is out of the question . chassis is for sure. wheel base is way bigger and the body does not unbolt on a vanagon. 
_________________
55 deluxe 23 window bus
64 crew cab
55 rag top beetle
66 beetle
71 square back (sold) ! good luck with it Henry!
46 beetle 552nd royal army service corps CCG |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sgmalt46 wrote: |
| the one in the photo is original from 46 . they made 2 like that. it is factory with the roller apron .ect.. one is in the museum and the other one is in a private collection as far as i know. i think the vanangon drive train is out of the question . chassis is for sure. wheel base is way bigger and the body does not unbolt on a vanagon. |
Oh it won't be a standard chassis, I'll be narrowing and shortening it to suit the Beetle body.
It's good to hear about the '46 in the photo. Two you say? Any more details on those two Type 87s?
There are the obvious details from the photos: roller and wider wings/running boards but I'd love to know what the width and offset of those wheels is as they're unlike anything else I've seen on any other VW.
MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AlanInMass54
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2003
Posts: 1070
Location: Massachusetts
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Maybe a drivetrain from a Quantum Synchro would work? More compact maybe? Sounds like a cool idea regardless! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
I intend on driving it off-road and using the diff-locks and G gear a lot so it really needs to be capable off-road.
Also, I already have the chassis and running gear so that part is chosen.
If all goes well, I should be collecting the body next week.
MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kapt. Q
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2011
Posts: 256
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
The two type 87's built in 46 are not exactly the same as the ones built during the war. The second of the two went to France for evaluation and it's whereabouts or even whether it still exists is unknown.
Perhaps better to model it on the 'real' wartime KDF 87/7 rather than the British/VW post war 'replica'.
Cheers! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mandraks
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7050
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
maybe you want to look up "manfred" in Mannheim?
this is an oval, but i did also see the parts needed to build an all wheel drive version
_________________
regards
Uli
----------------------------------------
'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
I can appreciate the correctness of the Type 877 that is from war time but it's the look of the above car that I'm particularly interested in.
I'll have a look for Manfred and see what I can find out, thanks for the tip.
Does anyone know how much wider the wings are?
MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
eurodub
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007
Posts: 1321
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
if that oval you are cutting has a decent real oval clip i would be happy to get it , i have a friend with a post 1957 rear window that needs it.
a type 877 would be nice , i am sure the wheels are just like the ones on the schwimmer. if you go for it, make sure at least to keep VW bug wheels, and a spartan stock appearance.
_________________
1960 1200 model 117 deluxe ragtop
1974 T2 Westfalia Campmobile
1976 MK1 Golf |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Probably used Schwimmwagen drivetrain/wheels and the fenders were widened accordingly?
_________________
EMPI Power Rules! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SyncroGhia wrote: |
| ... what the width and offset of those wheels is .... |
They are standard Schwimmwagen wheels and tyres. The wheels are 7x16. Schwim tyres are available new, last I heard they were $500 each.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kapt. Q
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2011
Posts: 256
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| GTV wrote: |
| Probably used Schwimmwagen drivetrain/wheels and the fenders were widened accordingly? |
It used the experimental drivetrain from the 4x4 version of the kubelwagen. The type 166 schwimmwagen actually has a narrower wheelbase and shorter axles. There are other differences too.
Cheers! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
This gets more and more interesting as we go on!
I thought that the wheels looked to have a different offset to the Schwimmwagen giving a smaller offset therefore moving the wheel out needing those large wings.
MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kapt. Q
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2011
Posts: 256
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
The wheels and tyres where used on the schwimmwagen.
Cheers! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kapt. Q wrote: |
The wheels and tyres where used on the schwimmwagen.
Cheers! |
Ok. Do you have the offset for those wheels please?
If the track is wider on the Type 87, does anyone have the track width dimensions?
MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tstracy39
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 3294
Location: Seattle, WA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think it's a cool idea. I would guess that you'd have to measure the one in the museum to get the necessary dimensions, or eyeball everything by comparing the pictures with a standard width Split fender. 4WD has been done before using a complete Subaru drivetrain including engine turned around backwards, the guy ended up having new reversed differential gears machined, which was very expensive, a cheaper alternative to that would be converting a VW engine to reverse rotation or cutting a reverse rotation Corvair engine down to 4 cylinders.
_________________
Check my classifieds for kewl gauges:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=tstracy39
| EverettB wrote: |
| I like your fork. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| SyncroGhia wrote: |
| Kapt. Q wrote: |
The wheels and tyres where used on the schwimmwagen.
Cheers! |
Ok. Do you have the offset for those wheels please?
|
Just a guess, but... if a standard 16" Beetle wheel is 3.5" wide and those are 7", I'd say that they added 3.5" to the outside and the backspace remains the same. But, since this is a custom build you have freedom to do what works, you aren't held back so much by what is correct as long as the overall look is similar. After you build your suspension make up a set of 16x7 wheels with as much backspace as possible (as long as everything clears), then widen your fenders accordingly.
_________________
EMPI Power Rules! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
eurodub
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007
Posts: 1321
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
you can also use Opel Olympia wheels, that are cheaper and easier to get. if you don't want 16" regular 15" beetle wheels should work on new wheel rims.
_________________
1960 1200 model 117 deluxe ragtop
1974 T2 Westfalia Campmobile
1976 MK1 Golf |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
I would love to use that style of wheel but as the vanagon chassis gives a wider track than the Beetle (by a lot!) I'm already going to be struggling to get the wheels under the arches, even with wider wings.
The reason for all of the questions about the wheels and wings is so that I have a track width figure to aim for.
Looking at the Type 82, it has a wider rear track even than a later Beetle. I don't know about the front.
This is the kind of info that I need.
As I'm using T3 Syncro underpinnings, I'll be using 5 x 112 wheels and I've already chosen the wheels with a large offset to keep the wheels tucked in as much as possible.
What size are the tyres on the Schwimmwagen and Kommandeurwagen?
Oh... thank you for all of your help (everyone) so far with the information. This is invaluable to me 
MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
