Car leans to side, help to diagnosis.

[Maxoceanblue]

Ok, my car leans toward the driver side. The first picture is of the car on jack stands under the lower beam. Disregard the jack in the picture. It's not touching the car at all. Notice the driver side tire is slightly higher than the other side? Could this mean the torsion bar is weak or saging on the passenger side?

I've looked under the car looking for evidence of past accident damage. Although I'm not a body mechanic I don't think it's been in an accident. The beam is adjustable. It looks like the PO welded them in. I bought the car off of a little car lot who got it at an auction so I don't have access to the PO to ask questions. Could adjusting the two adjusters improperly cause this lean? I haven't touched these adjusters yet.

The second picture is of the car on the ground. I have to admit the lean doesn't look so bad. It's really more dramatic in person. The car rides really well. Steering is great. I just don't like the look of it. From the back the lean is almost unnoticeable.

Any suggestion?

Thanks

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1964 Beetle Sedan/1600cc DP 12v converted

[Dougy Dee]

Bad shocks will cause this. Disconnect shocks and see what happens.

[Maxoceanblue]

So just disconnect both shocks and see where the wheels hang, on jack stands of course. Don't have time to do it now. But I'll give it a shot. Thanks.
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1964 Beetle Sedan/1600cc DP 12v converted

[Nevada Notch]

Is this a link pin or ball joint front end?
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1966 Euro
1600DP
Dual 34mm ICT's
99% Resto-Custom Daily Driver

[vdubnut58]

It's possible your rear spring plates are not indexed correctly. I would get a angle finder and check them. You will of course need to unbolt the axles, spring plate cover, release pre load before checking.

[Maxoceanblue]

It's a link pin.

If the difference in height of the front end shows its self while the wheels are up in the air I don't think the rear of the car would matter, no?
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1964 Beetle Sedan/1600cc DP 12v converted

[schwim]

Over the life of the car, the fact that 100% of the rides had someone in the driver's seat(well, hopefully so) while a smaller percentage had someone in the passenger seat can lead to your torsion springs sagging more on the driver's side.

For the rear, you can correct it by re-indexing the spring plate. In the front, there's no way to adjust either side independently of the other. If what we're looking at is really the difference in wheel height and not a disparity between wheel and concrete, then I would say your only option(that I can think of) to try to resolve this issue without buying anything would be to pull the control arms off your beam and reverse one of your spring packs(flip driver's to passenger's side and reinsert). That should split the difference.

Before doing all that, put a straight-edge along both tubes of your beam and make sure that whoever welded the adjusters in kept all parts in alignment. If they didn't, it could cause issues like you're having as well.
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Zippy the Wonderbug's achingly slow meandering toward roadworthiness

[drscope]

Do the shock thing first. Taking them loose is quick, easy, clean and free.

If you still get the same uneven sag after that, then you will need to get your hands dirty to see what the cause is.

You may simply have tired torsion leaves. Or you may have an issue where the adjuster was welded in place while the leaf stack was in place. That can take the temper out of the spring and that could certainly be the cause on one side.

Or you may have a broken leaf or two in there that allows one side to move more freely then the other.

Or you may find any number of God Awful modifications inside like missing or cut leaves.

So pull the shocks first and see what you get. Then maybe you will need to start pulling leaves and getting dirty.

But as schwim ponted out, don't overlook someone else's work at installing the adjusters! I've seen some pretty horrifying jobs in that department!
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[Maxoceanblue]

Thanks for all the great advice. I should have time this weekend to check the shocks. But the leaf springs will have to wait a couple if weeks. Can I get to those springs without and special tools?
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1964 Beetle Sedan/1600cc DP 12v converted

[Nevada Notch]

No special tools required.

Remove the drums
remove the tie rods
Remove the trailing arm grub screws.
Remove the trailing arms
Remove the center leaf grub screws

Pull the leafs out!

Pulling it apart is easy!
_________________
1966 Euro
1600DP
Dual 34mm ICT's
99% Resto-Custom Daily Driver

[andk5591]

Well - tie rods can be a bugger without trashing the boots. Most FLAPS will loan/rent you a good tie rod end puller.
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Nevada Notch]

I stand corrected! Some tie rods can be a beeotch! Forgot all about that one!

I got lucky with the last 2 sets I removed, one set from my 66 and one set from my 74 just required a slight tap with a hammer.

Ball joints on the other hand........
_________________
1966 Euro
1600DP
Dual 34mm ICT's
99% Resto-Custom Daily Driver

[1965VWBUGGER]

Check the rubber bump stops on the front beam too. I am missing one on the Pass side and it hangs lower then the driver..
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1965 VW Beetle Project "SIX5BUG" now Zaney"s Rally Racer
2011 VW Golf TDI DSG Malone Stg 1.5 (Traded)
2013 VW Tiguan 4 Mo 2.0 TFSI. APR Stg 1.5. Aka Iggy

[Joey]

You don't need to remove the drums or separate the tie rod ends from the spindle. Just loosen the link pin pinch bolts and pull the link pins out from the torsion arms and push the whole spindle assemble aside. You'll probably have to prop it up on something so it's not just hanging there by the tie rod.
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Joey

‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle

[Maxoceanblue]

Don't the leaf springs have those dimples to receive the set screws. Won't flipping half the leafs around mess up the dimples?
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1964 Beetle Sedan/1600cc DP 12v converted

[offshores]

If you're referring to flipping individual springs in a stack you can switch the middle 2 together and the outside half springs with no problems. If you switch the ones next to the 2 middle ones you would need reinsert the one that came from the top to the bottom and the one from the bottom to the top of the stack. Does that make sense???
Or you could just pull one whole spring stack from the bottom tube of the beam, flip it and reinsert.

[Maxoceanblue]

Ok, I raised the car back up and took off the wheels. Then with the shocks still attached I measured from the bottom of the drum to the ground and the driver side is only 1/16th of an inch higher, almost no difference. I then disconnected the shocks and the same, about 1/16th of an inch higher on the driver side. I am able to man handle the drums up and down a bit and measured them in their resting position and did push them down as far as was comfortable and about the same. I'm thinking with them so close, 1/16th of an inch, that the shocks are good and I'm looking at having to pull the lead springs out, hu?
What do you think?
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1964 Beetle Sedan/1600cc DP 12v converted

[schwim]

Two questions:

How did you level the car? The measurements don't mean very much unless the car itself is properly leveled.

Have you run a long level along the concrete under the car wheels? Pads are notoriously out of level and I would make sure I was measuring off of points known to be even.
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Zippy the Wonderbug's achingly slow meandering toward roadworthiness

[Maxoceanblue]

I think though that I'll have to reindex my rear torsion. My right/ passenger tire sits lower in the wheel well. That would push my driver front tire up into the wheel well hu? Oh boy.
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1964 Beetle Sedan/1600cc DP 12v converted

[Maxoceanblue]

Just checked, garage floor is level.
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1964 Beetle Sedan/1600cc DP 12v converted