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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:35 pm Post subject: Time to replace ball joints? |
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While checking my brakes today I noticed that one of my ball joint boots has been ripped and the others don't look like they are in very good shape. After researching and looking at threads on TSA I have a couple of questions.
To check if my ball joints are good/bad I read that I need to shake the tire and check for side to side play, is this done with the wheel off the ground?
Another thing I read was that clunking when going over bumps could be a sign of a bad ball joint and my bus does make that sound.
It appears that ball joint quality is questionable and so are the boots themselves. It also appears to be a giant pain in the ass to remove unless you have the right tools (youtube videos show the right tool makes the job super easy). With that in mind it seems like the best option for a noob like me would be to purchase reconditioned torsion arms with the ball joints already pressed in. If I go this route, will I need any special tools other than the basics and a jack? Is there anything I have to worry about if I go this route (do I need to do an alignment or any other adjustments)?
I've found three places that do this service and was wondering what everyones feedback was?
Germansupply- unfortunately too expensive even if not including shipping from Canada.
http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/product.php?productid=16943
The busboys- price looks good and I believe they are pretty close to me so shipping shouldn't be too bad but they don't appear to have the eccentric bushings but I don't know how big of a deal that is.
http://www.bus-boys.com/bbbjarms2.htm
And lastly there is wolfgang international, which I haven't dealt with before and I haven't heard much about them. Their refurbs do include the eccentric bushings.
https://www.wolfgangint.com/store/product/reconditioned-ball-joint-arms-211405371bwg/
Are there better options?
_________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50259
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Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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The top joint is probably shot as it is obviously dry. The others might still be serviceable. With the wheels on the ground shake the top of the wheel in and out hard to feel for play. Best to tighten the wheel bearing adjusting nut so that any play you feel is not coming from the wheel bearing. Also best to have someone else do the shaking while you crawl underneath to feel for play across the ball joints with your fingers.
In a place like Sacramento you should be able to find a local shop with experience to press the joints in and out for you, otherwise doing an exchange as you suggest would be fine. |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
In a place like Sacramento you should be able to find a local shop with experience to press the joints in and out for you, otherwise doing an exchange as you suggest would be fine. |
Kombi Haus, or see where SGKent recommends. _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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I usually go to kombi haus but seeing as this is my daily driver, I'd have to basically have them do the whole job. _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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But a set of trashed arms here in the classifieds, and take them to KH with your new joints and boots, and have them do it when they have time. I've had MUCH better help there when I didn't specify a deadline. _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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asiab3 wrote: |
But a set of trashed arms here in the classifieds, and take them to KH with your new joints and boots, and have them do it when they have time. I've had MUCH better help there when I didn't specify a deadline. |
Hmm...that's an option I guess.
What's better; lemforder or nakata? _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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MrVWGuy Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2010 Posts: 643 Location: North of Pittsburgh PA
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:16 am Post subject: |
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I needed new ball joints in my '68 so installed Flennor "made in Germany" ball joints. They were so damn tight they made the bus drive horribly. I left them in for a year hoping they would "losen up". They didn't, so I pulled them out & installed Nakata brand ball joints from aircooled.net. Made all of the difference in the world!! I recommend Nakata from experience. _________________ '63 Bus (camper of unknown origin)
'62 Beetle
'68 Kombi
'76 Westfalia camper, the wife's |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:57 am Post subject: |
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ivwshane wrote: |
What's better; lemforder or nakata? |
Lemforder made the original ball joints for VW. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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MrVWGuy Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2010 Posts: 643 Location: North of Pittsburgh PA
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Joey wrote: |
ivwshane wrote: |
What's better; lemforder or nakata? |
Lemforder made the original ball joints for VW. |
So did Nakata. They are the OEM supplier for the buses made today in Brazil. _________________ '63 Bus (camper of unknown origin)
'62 Beetle
'68 Kombi
'76 Westfalia camper, the wife's |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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I have the tool to check the play as described in Bentley. |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Make sure that the ball joints have zerk grease fitting installed prior to installation.
Not all do. |
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borninabus Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4532 Location: Arizona Highways
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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The Nakata seem to be the best all around choice. _________________ 71 Ghia A/S - 88 Van A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'll test the joints on my next day off, if I need to replace them I think I'll go with the Wolfgang reconditioned set (they use Nakata ball joints). _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3777 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Also understand one thing after replacing them...the boots won't last long. _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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69BahamaYellow Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2011 Posts: 535 Location: Talbott, TN
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:06 pm Post subject: Flennor Ball Joints |
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My old joints were OK, but the boots were bad so I replaced them with the only option available (Chineese boots from Bus depot) and they just don't last, not even a year, so I wouldn't waste time installing them. Since I could not find any other replacement boots, I decided to install new ones.
I installed some of the Flennor Ball joints also from Bus Depot 6-8 months ago. They were tight, as was previously mentioned, which did seem to make the bus handle differently for a while, but they seem to have loosened up now and the Bus drives great and the boots look good. Time will tell if they last...... |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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So what's the best options for boots? I've read a dozen threads and the most recent suggestion was to use boots for a different vehicle but I don't remember what that was or what brand. _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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ivwshane wrote: |
I'll test the joints on my next day off, if I need to replace them I think I'll go with the Wolfgang reconditioned set (they use Nakata ball joints). |
not meaning any disrespect but I would never go that route again based on what I got when I bought them there. |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:27 am Post subject: |
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I replaced the ball joints on my '74 bus three years ago with Lemforder ball joints and I just had the bus inspected in July and the ball joint are still nice and tight and the boots are still in great condition. I replaced the ball joints on my '79 less than two years ago with Nakata joints and I had to replace the uppers just a few months ago - they were beat and the boots were starting to crack. I drive the two buses about the same amount but the '74 sometimes see a bit of off-roading... think I'll stick with the Lemforder ball joints. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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1975 Kombi Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2007 Posts: 2452 Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Randy in Maine wrote: |
Make sure that the ball joints have zerk grease fitting installed prior to installation.
Not all do. |
You can't install Zerk fittings in the bottom of the Nakata ball joints. There is not enough metal depth/thickness on the bottom. I tried and you only have 1/16 of metal and the self tapping tapered threads don't have enough to grab onto.
Or at least I couldn't do it! _________________ Brett
“He’s decieving you boy! Reach into his pocket and take what he’s got.” Mr. Crabbs.
75 Westy auto
03 Jetta TDI
71 SB
74 Westy
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
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Rust In Pieces: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Joey wrote: |
I replaced the ball joints on my '74 bus three years ago with Lemforder ball joints and I just had the bus inspected in July and the ball joint are still nice and tight and the boots are still in great condition. I replaced the ball joints on my '79 less than two years ago with Nakata joints and I had to replace the uppers just a few months ago - they were beat and the boots were starting to crack. I drive the two buses about the same amount but the '74 sometimes see a bit of off-roading... think I'll stick with the Lemforder ball joints. |
the cat's meow is to pull the old arms and if they are in excellent condition, which many are if they have been lubed used the Lemforder, especially old stock if one can find it. Several places do it and members here can give guidance on where they had theirs done. At WG I went thru 4 boxes of arms to get one good set. They looked like they had been stored outdoors before being rebuilt and had rusted on the bearing surface as it was checked and pitted. I took the best 4 arms, then polished them to be sure they were smooth and used them. The arms I gave to WG were in excellent condition except for the joints. When I called they said I could bring them up and have them done. When I got their they said no, they would only swap. Looking back I should have just walked out the door but it was a 100+ mile drive each way so I took the swaps. Joey's advise to use Lemforder (original provider of the parts) and use your own if they are in good shape is the best advise. From what I understand, Scott also sells good sets. Another option which is where I would start is check them with the tool. If they aren't worn out just replace the boots and lube them. |
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