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wecm31
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Joined: August 05, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: Eganville, Ontario
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 Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:35 am Post subject: Yellow Sealant for Head Bolts |
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Replacing heads & gaskets on my 1.9.
Bought a gasket kit from a vendor here in Canada, thought it was a good price, and hey, save on shipping and duty right??
I asked specifically if the kit had the tubes of sealant,
"Yeah, I think so"
...well no actually, no sealant in gasket kit. I did order from BD the correct sealant for the actual head gasket, but I am now at a loss as to what I should use for the yellow sealant I see refered to for the head nuts themselves.
I am using Gasgacinch on all the coolant flanges, would that work?
Or just what is an equivalent to the yellow sealant? Any old silicon/RTV gasket goo will do??
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Gerald P
1985 Vanagon (Betty) & 1985 BMW R80RT (Wilhelm)
vintage boxers!!
Gone are the days we stopped to decide
Where we should go, we just ride:) |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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wecm31
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: Eganville, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:35 am Post subject: |
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thanks for the lead Dave....but I couldn't see which one he uses at the end.
I think it was the Curil 2 or Permatex Aviation, looks like the Loctite 518 was just on the pushrod tubes.
what did you use on your cylinder base orings? I just gave 'em a light film of oil. I was hoping to reseat the heads with the cylinders a half inch off fully inserted, per a tencent method I read. That would complicate the use of a sealant there.
Ben..great site. Have both purchased parts from him as well as dontated $$.
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Gerald P
1985 Vanagon (Betty) & 1985 BMW R80RT (Wilhelm)
vintage boxers!!
Gone are the days we stopped to decide
Where we should go, we just ride:) |
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rubbachicken
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Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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i have been thinking about counter sinking into either the nuts, or the head, a little so there is room for an O ring in there, i think next time i rebuild an engine for me, i will try it.
bens site is very very useful 
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lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32635
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Honestly, I'm just coming up on my reassembly.
I've been reading a lot and seeking guidance on the best products.
As I interpret Ben's page.......
Rubber head to case gasket...... RIGHT STUFF on both the case and the head.
Head Nuts........ Right Stuff but be careful not to get it into the acorn nut! Only apply to flat recess on head, NOT on the studs. Doing so will give you false torque numbers due to the trapped product in the nut.
ORing on cylinder into case...... Loctite 518
ORing (green) on cylinder to head.... Nothing
Push Rod Tubes ........ Loctite 518
Metal compression head gaskets...... Cyril K2 or Permatex Aviation
very Very VERY Important to follow torque procedure and values!
Change coolant every two years.
If I am incorrect..... (Inconceivable!  )(those with daughters will get that statement "I do not think that word means what you think it means") please correct me so others are not led astray by this post.
Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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wecm31
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: Eganville, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Metal compression head gaskets...... Cyril K2 or Permatex Aviation
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You mean the metal rings that are between the cylinder and the head?
I thought you coat them with grease to hold them in place while you
button up. Didn't think there was a sealant used there...
What about the base o-ring on the cylinders?
thanks for the input Dave 
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Gerald P
1985 Vanagon (Betty) & 1985 BMW R80RT (Wilhelm)
vintage boxers!!
Gone are the days we stopped to decide
Where we should go, we just ride:) |
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wecm31
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Joined: August 05, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: Eganville, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: |
ORing on cylinder into case...... Loctite 518
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Just read it again...
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Gerald P
1985 Vanagon (Betty) & 1985 BMW R80RT (Wilhelm)
vintage boxers!!
Gone are the days we stopped to decide
Where we should go, we just ride:) |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Look at this photo I pulled from Ben's page.
Metal head gaskets........
There is something on those head gaskets. It isn't grease, it isn't 518, it isn't the Right Stuff....... EDIT: from the post below Ben is indeed saying to use Permatex Aviation on the metal head gasket.
Push rod tubes...... No pressure
Cylinder ORing..... Low pressure
From Ben's Page........
-Heads gasket (rubber one) = Dirco OR The right Stuff
-Pushrods tube and other low pressure parts = Loctite / Permatex 518
-High pressure parts = Curil K2 and Permatex Aviation
Here is Permatex Aviation...... See any similar properties to the Goo on the gaskets in Ben's photo above?.....
Ben is saying to use the Aviation here....... My concern, being a head gasket, is the working temperature of the product of only 400*........
Then again....... Ben is no Johnny Come Lately or at all inexperienced!
Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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djkeev
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wecm31
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: Eganville, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for sharing your research, I see we are on similar projects.
Even picked up the same products (Right Stuff, Aviation) at my FLAPS after work today.
Given we both have time, what do you think of the two step process to seal the head? Bolt on the head with no tubes, just to seal the gasket against the case. Then remove head, inspect & remove any excess prior to the final sealing of head to gasket.
....and I guess I can't hijack my own thread.....what do you think of a leak down test with the engine still on the stand? A check before reinstalling the engine.
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Gerald P
1985 Vanagon (Betty) & 1985 BMW R80RT (Wilhelm)
vintage boxers!!
Gone are the days we stopped to decide
Where we should go, we just ride:) |
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djkeev
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djkeev
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morymob
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Joined: November 09, 2007
Posts: 4683
Location: east-tn
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| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: |
I hadn't given the two step much consideration, I only stumbled upon that as I posted the links!
What does intrigue me is morymob's home made gasket that has served him well for over a decade! He's a trusted member here and we have no reason to think that he's BS-ing us!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=264403
Sadly most of his photo links are gone. He has a few photos in his album but no real detail........ Some look like a power button for something!.......
Dave |
I'm back and yes that is my pic. Used this seal of hi-temp silicone gsket material bought locally from a gasket materials company etc, 1st one in '93 on a driver over 12 yrs before sold, i did test to 90psi on a bare block for a few hrs sitting the hot sun. All or 1st 4 wbxs leaked and all changed. I got the usual flack when 1st posted and with instructions how to do this so i faded int the background and continued to just do my thing. My beater is 4yrs + now. |
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djkeev
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morymob
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Location: east-tn
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| The material is hi-temp silicone , 1/4" (255tho) thick,supplier said one use is in hotwater and steam flange seals. Not a hard material, i would tq to last 5lb, let sit for an an hour or more and then do the final 5lbs tq. Mine was always done in warm weather and when i tested a strip where i could see what happened when tight, the block side made a slight concave in seal which would make sure it stayed in place,as i mentioned i tested to 90-95 psi highest press my comp had and i wanted to see just what press would blow it, this should be plenty. I buy a 1ft X 2ft sect, enuf 4 3- seals in case i slip cutting one, less than $25 cost, supplier has all kinds of gasket sheets, used some to make f-pump diaf in 36 hp fuel pumps also,i think name National Gasket materials co, may be just local name. I did this as stock ones didn't cut it 4 being reliable, as i do all my own work anytime i see fit to better(my opinio only) something in all the brands owned i go 4 it and move on.This should ans your q's.All my previous info was moved to gallery sect so i guess some got lost, deleted, ?? |
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