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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69697 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:00 am Post subject: Bus Rear / Back Seat information thread |
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I am starting a thread to detail all rear seat changes.
Photos and more information welcome.
PM me or post in this thread and I will update this first post.
Barndoor:
Barndoor only, although the Barndoor rear seat base may be the same as a 1955 Bus rear seat base.
Barndoor rear seat back rest photos:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_keywords=Barndoor+rear+seat+back+rest
Barndoor rear seat base photos:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_keywords=Barndoor+rear+seat+base
55 is considered "55 only" (may be same as Barndoor)
Unique "straight" rear seat bottom center leg:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=474001
55-57
Flat back seat
56-57 seat bottom
58-mid-63
Humped seat back, seat base has 4 floor mounting points
mid-63-67
Humped seat back, seat base has 2 mounting points, legs were changed when mounting points were changed, basic look is similar to above
Mid-63 rear seat base design change photos
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_keywords=rear+seat+base+comparison
Example (note twist on left-hand leg here for primary difference)
In the photo above, the early seat is the bare frame, the mid-63-up frame is in green upholstery.
Other:
Back seat back rest mounts
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=218219
Mounting information for the bracket above:
The above bracket is from a '64 Deluxe.
The single bolt is M6x15.
The 2 machine screws are M6x15. 1.00 thread pitch.
My '63 has 2 machine screws:
M5x15 0.8 thread pitch
Cargo floor seat mounts:
57 and earlier "big spring" seat design:
58 and later spring design:
Bay Window versus Split-Window Bus seat from another member
Stanagon wrote: |
I just measured two rear seats I have. Both are original upholstery with somewhat worn padding, but in overall good condition.
Bay window:
Seat bottom width: approx. 60 inches (measured toward the front of the seat using the upholstery piping for side to side points.
Seatback width: at bottom: 59-1/2 inches, near top: 57-1/2 inches
'61 Bus:
Seat bottom width: approx 61-1/2 inches
Seatback width: at bottom 62 inches, near top: 60 inches
Conclusion: the split window seat is about 1 - 2 inches wider than a bay window rear seat. |
Deluxe rear seat upper luggage bar:
Lengths:
55-66: 53 13/16"
67: 46 1/2"
Diameter: 19mm. _________________ How to Post Photos
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Last edited by EverettB on Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:08 pm; edited 11 times in total |
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Stanagon Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2003 Posts: 4186 Location: Boston, MA
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14195 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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I was under the impression that '67 only had a slightly narrower rear seat backrest and slightly longer wall mounting brackets. |
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Stocknazi Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5144
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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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BarryL wrote: |
I was under the impression that '67 only had a slightly narrower rear seat backrest and slightly longer wall mounting brackets. |
67 deluxe rear seats are unique as they have a different spacing of the luggage bar uprights; the bar itself i believe is the same length. _________________ WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69697 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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StockNazi wrote: |
BarryL wrote: |
I was under the impression that '67 only had a slightly narrower rear seat backrest and slightly longer wall mounting brackets. |
67 deluxe rear seats are unique as they have a different spacing of the luggage bar uprights; the bar itself i believe is the same length. |
The bar is shorter.
I'm not sure about the rest but if someone can confirm that I will add the info.
I know Bay Window rear seat backrests are narrower. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
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CaLiBus Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2011 Posts: 1097
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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Everett- in your post above.. what makes this 55 only? This is a Portugal made barndoor base seat into the post Barndoor "55" bus.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/474001.jpg
Can we also point out the big springs in the seat base that carried into Hanover buses 56-57. I'll post pics of the early Hanover big springs seat. |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69697 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the use of a Portugal wood seat there is sort of a bad example but was there for the metal leg design.
The center leg is different than later Buses.
It may be all Wolfsburg Buses - I would need someone to confirm that for me.
CaLiBus wrote: |
Can we also point out the big springs in the seat base that carried into Hanover buses 56-57. I'll post pics of the early Hanover big springs seat. |
All flat back seats are big spring.
I did not spell out the "big springs" in the post but I will add that change. _________________ How to Post Photos
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CaLiBus Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2011 Posts: 1097
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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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IMO Wolfsburg only would be a tough call with Wolfsburg parts and mods were found being used in the Hanover plant.
Here's the 56-57 big spring without the pointy center leg.
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14195 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:54 am Post subject: |
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EverettB wrote: |
StockNazi wrote: |
67 deluxe rear seats are unique as they have a different spacing of the luggage bar uprights; the bar itself i believe is the same length. |
The bar is shorter.
I'm not sure about the rest but if someone can confirm that I will add the info.
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So the spacing IS the same?
This site doesn't show any other listings for back or bracket (part 33 and 34). http://oacdp.org/5867part/515.png
If the spacing were NOT the same then it's conceivable that the bracket and width change wouldn't show for the last year. I'll see what I can measure first hand.
Again, this doesn't show a shorter guard rail (part20). http://oacdp.org/5867part/463.png |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69697 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:24 am Post subject: |
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BarryL wrote: |
EverettB wrote: |
StockNazi wrote: |
67 deluxe rear seats are unique as they have a different spacing of the luggage bar uprights; the bar itself i believe is the same length. |
The bar is shorter.
I'm not sure about the rest but if someone can confirm that I will add the info.
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So the spacing IS the same?
This site doesn't show any other listings for back or bracket (part 33 and 34). http://oacdp.org/5867part/515.png
If the spacing were NOT the same then it's conceivable that the bracket and width change wouldn't show for the last year. I'll see what I can measure first hand.
Again, this doesn't show a shorter guard rail (part20). http://oacdp.org/5867part/463.png |
I don't know if the spacing is the same.
If the seat frame itself is narrower for 1967 I can see the spacing being different.
The bar itself is shorter.
I have a shorter one but I don't know what it came off of.
It doesn't look hacked but it is 46.5"
This matches a comment from Dave24 I posted below.
I did a search and here is some stuff from other threads:
Quote: |
I have a 66 and earlier luggage bar and it is 53 13/16" |
Dave24 wrote: |
The bar itself is shorter than earlier bars, by 6"-7" |
EverettB wrote: |
My '64 Bus rear bar, installed, is 53 13/16" (not including the end caps)
I have another bar, uninstalled, this is 53 5/8". Year unknown but I think it is from a '60 or '61. |
From Lind regarding 67 seats:
Lind wrote: |
it is slightly narrower. the seat is one year only also because the mounts for the uprights are set closer to the middle. |
_________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14195 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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EverettB wrote: |
From Lind regarding 67 seats:
Lind wrote: |
it is slightly narrower. the seat is one year only also because the mounts for the uprights are set closer to the middle. |
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This quote starts out "it is"..., meaning the bar or the seat?
I just measured an October '67 Kombi rear backrest across the bottom back frame as that was where I could get the tape the tightest. It was 61.5".
I then measured a '65 Delux and it was the same.
Both seats' mounting brackets look just like the one Everett posted. |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69697 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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BarryL wrote: |
EverettB wrote: |
From Lind regarding 67 seats:
Lind wrote: |
it is slightly narrower. the seat is one year only also because the mounts for the uprights are set closer to the middle. |
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This quote starts out "it is"..., meaning the bar or the seat?
I just measured an October '67 Kombi rear backrest across the bottom back frame as that was where I could get the tape the tightest. It was 61.5".
I then measured a '65 Delux and it was the same.
Both seats' mounting brackets look just like the one Everett posted. |
It was a response to a question about the bar.
October '67 meaning a '67 Bus built in October, 1966. Right?
I'd check the top too... _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14195 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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EverettB wrote: |
October '67 meaning a '67 Bus built in October, 1966. Right?
I'd check the top too... |
Yes. Can you fix it if it needs clarifying?
The tops are hard to get to but I'll try. Thing is, the same brackets are in the same positions as the one you posted a picture of on both seats. So, theoretically, unless a '67 bus is narrower at the attachment points, wouldn't that kinda' prove they are the same width? |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69697 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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BarryL wrote: |
EverettB wrote: |
October '67 meaning a '67 Bus built in October, 1966. Right?
I'd check the top too... |
Yes. Can you fix it if it needs clarifying?
The tops are hard to get to but I'll try. Thing is, the same brackets are in the same positions as the one you posted a picture of on both seats. So, theoretically, unless a '67 bus is narrower at the attachment points, wouldn't that kinda' prove they are the same width? |
Yes, unless the brackets are different I would not expect to differ.
I seriously doubt the rear deck size changed to necessitate a seat/bracket alteration. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
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kenshapiro2002 Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2013 Posts: 1826 Location: Bawlmer Hon
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:13 am Post subject: |
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I'm confused...jail bars aside did we ever figure out if the '67 rear seat is in any way unique? Width? Mounting points? _________________ Looking for a correct 1967 rear seat
Looking for '67 Engine / Block HO 183xxx - HO 194xxx |
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olliehank47 Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2011 Posts: 1198
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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kenshapiro2002 wrote: |
I'm confused...jail bars aside did we ever figure out if the '67 rear seat is in any way unique? Width? Mounting points? |
As I understand the discussion, the seat back and bottom are the same width as earlier seats. The luggage bar on the back of the deluxe seat, however, appears to be shorter on the 67 and the spacing of the bar uprights appears to be different as well. Mounting points are the same as earlier seats. |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69697 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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olliehank47 wrote: |
kenshapiro2002 wrote: |
I'm confused...jail bars aside did we ever figure out if the '67 rear seat is in any way unique? Width? Mounting points? |
As I understand the discussion, the seat back and bottom are the same width as earlier seats. The luggage bar on the back of the deluxe seat, however, appears to be shorter on the 67 and the spacing of the bar uprights appears to be different as well. Mounting points are the same as earlier seats. |
This is my understanding as well. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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schnidlee Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2008 Posts: 78
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:21 am Post subject: |
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So if I'm looking at pictures of a possible split rear seat is there a way of confirming its not a bay seat without measurements? |
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Brian_1952 Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2005 Posts: 700
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:47 am Post subject: |
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I would like to see the spring on a 53 earlier middle seat and back seat i'm assuming they're different like the front seat _________________ (20-024785)Ambulance (20-037784)truck (20-035850)panel
(20-035778)kombi
WANTED 52 parts and NOS sheet-metal |
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olliehank47 Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2011 Posts: 1198
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:01 am Post subject: |
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schnidlee wrote: |
So if I'm looking at pictures of a possible split rear seat is there a way of confirming its not a bay seat without measurements? |
It's a little tricky, depending on what condition the seat is in and the pictures that are shown. Most common way to ID is look at the upholstery. Bay windows have a pattern that looks like three separate seating areas. Of course, upholstery is not always present or not original. Bay window bottom seats have holes in the legs for the pin on later seat clamps, split window seats do not. As far as the seat rear, bay window seats have a metal tab welded to the bottom rail that fits into a slot in the fire wall, split seats do not. Later bay seat backs have plugged holes along the top for headrests and some later ones have a latch mechanism on the sides to hold the seat vertically, instead of a bracket. If there is no upholstery on the seat back, later bay seat has square tube frame rather than round tubing, though I don't know when the change came about.
When in doubt, post the pictures here and someone will be able to help confirm if it is a split seat. |
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