Inline Conversion - Oil Priming Issues

[?Waldo?]

Thanks for the update. I'm glad you have seen improvement.

I thought I'd mention one other tidbit. There is usually a decent amount of play between the m8 oil pump mounting bolts and the oil pump. That play allows the oil pump pickup to swing ~1/8"-1/4" up or down. I like to rotate it to the down direction before tightening the mounting bolts down.

[Vanagon Nut]

[82westyrabbit]

I am glad to see you are getting to the bottom of this. John

[Vanagon Nut]

Thanks again John for enrouraging me to remove the oil pan and have a look. Not too much work to do so. Heck. There wasn't even an engine carrier bar strap to remove. Still have to make that part.

I learned some things doing this "small" job. If I ever do another swap (haha, ha), in terms of the oil pump, at a minimum I'd Plasti Gauge for gear axial play and would suggest others do the same regardless if the pump parts are new.

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Vanagon Nut]

[MarkWard]

Neil, where are you reading the oil pressure?
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[Vanagon Nut]

[MarkWard]

Neil, I would suggest checking the pressure at the block outlet. Years ago, I had built a mildly trick 1.8 engine for a customers 86 Scirocco. There was maybe a 15- 20 pound difference hot between the block outlet and the head outlet. Hydraulic lifters were new for VW at the time and I believe they had some affect on the oil pressure reading differences.
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[Vanagon Nut]

Thanks Mark. That's a helpful clue.

The engine hasn't been driven yet so if the hydro lifters are bleeding down overnight or over a few days or more, I'd wondered if that would allow oil to drain out of head which might exacerbate oiling at 1st start.

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[82westyrabbit]

Hi Neil. Just for reference my first oil pressure tests were done at the head. Now my oil pressure light sender is on the head and my oil pressure sender for the gauge is on the oil filter housing. This is the fourth in-line-four conversion I have done not counting the failed turbo diesel conversions I blew apart with a lead foot in my twenties. All but this one were done in the 80’s on van’s I bought with blown engines. In the day nobody cared and I threw them together without any more than a visual inspection. I would mix and match parts as necessary to make it work and it always did. The engine I removed from my current van had about two hundred and twenty thousand miles on it when I removed it for the upgrade. It’s oil usage had gone up to a QT every 700 miles or so and the lifters clattered when you would first start it in the morning but that’s pretty normal for a engine of that mileage. I had an engine with a known good pump. Unfortunately I sold it to someone who was starting a diesel conversion just before you started having problems. Otherwise I would have sent you a known working pump a long time ago. Certainly some wear in the head could cause the leak back you are having. I think you should just drive it enough that the oil doesn’t leak back. I would want to give everything a chance to break in. You may find this issue will go away. If I am wrong of course it will get worse but I don’t think so. In either case the correct thing to do will become clear. John

[Vanagon Nut]

Thanks very much John.

Ya, I kind of think driving it may change things but that may be wishful thinking. That said, I don't really think there's a potential issue related to the oil pump. The bigger area of potential issues lies in my engine rebuild skills, or lack there of. But, I was careful and asked a lot of questions during the rebuild so .....

I took the van for a quick "boot" up the driveway. Very premature observation but it feels peppier than my 15º ABA with about 150K miles on it.

Time will tell! I'm more concerned right now about fabricating a tie between carriers, exhaust design, heat shields for exhaust and proximity of intake to the (fibre glass? Not plastic?) engine lid, which is pretty close. I think theres info here from the Bostig folks about engine temps and lids but I'm getting way off track here.

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[82westyrabbit]

There is all ways more to do. I forgot are you running 82 or 83 carrier bars.
I was traveling for work a lot of this summer so I have just been driving my van. I an going to remake my exsust. I still have the crazy loud intake and a bunch of of rattles to take care of. It doesn’t end.
I don’t think I would worry about how close the engine is to the deck lid the intake and the alternator aren’t that hot.
It’s always good to see progress.
John

[Vanagon Nut]

A report back on my 50º ABA-diesel Vanagon oil pump priming issue:

after 20 hours or more, at first start cold I'd have to hold the idle at min. ~ 1200 RPM to get the oil pump to fill. As the pump filled, I'd hear a whirring sound then the oil light would go off.

For some miles now, consistently, regardless if van sits 20 hours or a week or more, right after engine starts, oil light goes off quickly.

Possible reasons for this change:

- use of a "high mileage" VW oil filter (for synthetic oil). But, priming issue may've improved before that. Sorry. Can't recall.

- because of work done to reduce gear end play to pick up tube and or because pump consists of an ABA pump/gear and diesel pickup tube, a "break in" period is required to allow gear ends to wear, mate, to the pickup tube face. This might improve the seal between them might help reduce amount of oil draining out of the pump.

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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[drip]

As well in the oil filter adapter on the ABA 1 there’s a very small check valve/spring assy. I believe it’s to prevent drain back from the top end. Way to small for any kind of pressure relief.

[Vanagon Nut]

[drip]

I’ve got an 82 diesel Westy that I put in a ABA bottom end with a early 1.8 CIS
head/injection system. Works good very tuneable and smooth. Of course diesel pan and pick up tube. On almost all engines I put together I check and adjust oil pump clearance but this one I didn’t. No gasket between the pick up and pump but it looses its prime if sits for a few days. So I guess it still has that diesel sound for a sec. 😀

[Vanagon Nut]

haha. "diesel sound".

Did some early VW inlines have a gasket between oil pump gear housing and pick up tube?

IIRC, it was list member Captain Pike who had a CIS mechanical swap he swore by (was quite reliable) and there was another Vanagaon with same, or E-CIS, "tiger van" ? that was also quite reliable.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[ALIKA T3]

No, no gasket on the oil pick up tube, it`s submersed in oil anyway.

What oil pressure sender are you using on the cylinder head? a blue one?
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[Vanagon Nut]

[ALIKA T3]