Black Fastback Build Thread

[notchboy]

[Jason37]

If I new you worked for so little, I would have sent you all my stuff to build while I sat back and watched on the web.

[Mike Fisher]

He told us a couple years ago he had 37K in it!
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[Jason37]

[Clatter]

[Clatter]

Welp, Saturday was a big 'ol full day o' work.

Having a motor on the stand is a happy place for sure..

There's a billion little details to building a motor,
And I've done well enough "look at me" motor builds already.
So, we'll just show a few things that are unique about this one here.

Knew i was jinxing myself when i told Bob it was just going together;
There HAD to be something, especially since using another case.

Sure enough, check this out..
Shining a light into the center main bearing from behind:

Check this out, something Jake taught me about years ago;
The center main bearing can be too 'long', too big on the OD/ID.
Even with main rcoss-bolts tight, the bearing holds the cases apart.

Scared the shit out of me that i put so much love into a bad case.
Thought i had the dreaded 'spread center main'!
Alas, not so; case comes tight without bearing.
*whew*

A few strokes on the old wet/dry like so,
test fit,
sand more,
Etc.
And we can creep up on that little light gap going away..

MUST be careful to not take too much off!
It would be super-no-bueno to lose main bearing crush!

Anyhow,
More later..
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

More from yesterday..

Cleaned up the heads to use.
They had years of grit on them from sitting around next to grinders, etc.
Some Gunk-on-the-grass...

The cam bolts cleared without any shortening.
Usually chop them to fit a type 1 pump, just in case, for good measure,
But just left them well enough alone this time.

Jim had come by for a while Friday night.
He finished cutting my heads for the beehive springs.
Since the heads had 9mm stems on the exhaust valves, he made this step mandrel for the cutter.
See also clearance to the side of the cutter for the tightness of the type 4 heads.
He also brought me some shims with a bigger OD from another type of car.
More in this later...

How fusking useless is the Bentley sometimes???
You can't tell what the orientation of the distributor drive is -actually- supposed to be from this stupid picture!! :fist:

Have put it both ways over the years,
Since you can flip the drive foot pin on the distributor,
Looking at my distributors now,
There's no way of knowing/telling!!
Getting stabbed into type 3 motors, then type 1s flipped around.. Yeesh.
Was hoping to set this straight once and for all this time..
Anybody know?



Anyways.. Onward and upward..
Got this buttoned up last night..

_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Sunday Sunday Sunday!!!

Head prep day! (WhooHoo?? )

Took most of the day to get these heads ready to go on..

Started off my making up a bunch of longer intake studs from threaded stock.

Pulled all of the old ones; only one wanted to fight.
Decided they need to go to cad, as they will show, right?

This so I can use the phenolic spacers from a FI Bus.
Since I have the room, might as well.

Have the linkage and filters engineered around using them as well..



These heads aren't the best.

They are some 1.8 "S" heads from a 914;
Considered the 'second best' heads to the rare/expensive 2.0 914 heads.
Valves on these are 41 x 35, only 1mm smaller than the 2.0,
But they have the early plug location, so they don't make power like the 2.0.
The big reason i didn't use the 2.0 was the chamber is too big,
And there's no way to get my CR where it needs to be (9:1+) with this cam.
That was un-solve-able (at least without massive welding work),
So I'm rocking these S heads on the little 2056 for now.
There is this little scheme in my mind to do up a set of bus cores i have here with some 42 x 36, or some 2.0 with the chambers welded up,
But,
I'm going to build a bigger motor around a real exhaust later, so we need to get this thing together..!
Anyways,
I'll do some detail on these heads.
They have some interesting issues.
It might sound like I'm bitching, or that these aren't any good,
But that ain't really the case,
Did what makes sense, and they should work FINE.
Besides, this is a 'customer motor' now since Jason is buying it, right?
Time to just slap this bitch together!



Here's the first issue i found.
The cutter that did the fly-cut was a bit dull, or picked up a chip or something.
When i went to go and lap the cylinders to the heads, it didn't ust clean up with a few strokes using the fine compound.
Normally, like on the 1-2 side here, you get a nice grey ring all the way around; fine compound, a little humpity-hump, and Bam! Done.

Doing up number four here, the fine compound didn't really 'take',
Even with a couple sessions humping it, you can see that it didn't give the nice grey ring all around.
The finish was a bit too rough, and not flat.
Did something i never do, ended up breaking out the coarse lapping compound.

Wunka-wunka a bunch with the coarse compound,
And you can see it's not hitting flat.

Humpa-humpa-humpa, and it comes clear around.
Then finish off with fine compound for a fine finish.

Did the other hole (#3) the same, to help make sure both sides are the same length,
And sit flat like they're 'sposeta.
Not really what we like to see with these things,
But it's what it took, and they should seal up well.
We'll get the leak-down on them here hopefully soon to see IRL.


A few other funny things about these:

This guide boss cracked when the new guide went in.
Jim says this is FINE. I always believe Jim.
It didn't go very deep, just at the tip.
Molested it a bit with a burr, to smooth a bit, and it seems sound.

See also OG studs a bit crusty.

Was going to insert them, or take them over,
And Jim gave an emphatic no to that idea.
Best to deal with them only if they give issues, and save life.
You only get a couple chances at those.

The other side got inserted and over-sized,
So the two heads don't match.
This might upset my anal anality,
But again, they will work FINE.

See that little flaw in the gasket surface?
Nothing you can really do about it.
Anneal the gaskets, use some copper pookie, and don't worry about it!
The gasket surface gets thin (narrow) in spots
(no Alice, i didn't do that with my die grinder - it was like that)
It's just how they are cast; nothing you can do about it - luck of the draw.


Good thing I'm going over to 96mm!
Look how the chamber woulda overlapped the sealing surface if these were regular 1.8 93s..

Anyways, it took a bit o' fettling to get all of the old glue from under the head washer area,
And i ground the plug holes on a couple for the CHT ring.
Also took and flap-wheel-smoothed the pushrod tube o-ring surface,
So they're looking like it's time for some assembly...

Xevin over in QC says they'll run just FINE.

_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Sunday progresses..

Check out this little redneck hot-rod trick;
Jim put a back-cut on the intake valves,
And it goes quite a ways up.
Trying what you can to get these stock valves to flow a bit more..
Also check out one of his beautiful 3-angle valve jobs.

Got to be extra 100% anal about getting all of that old grinding paste off of everything;
You'll wear things out early if you leave any on there.
Some Scotch-Brite and carb cleaner get the embedded grit out.


Jim cut my guide bosses down to fit the beehive springs.
Afterwards, the ID of the standard type 1 shim is a bit smaller on the ID than the boss.
He found these others from some other car in his stash that fit the OD, so they will locate well.

Getting the install height measurement is always kind of iffy with a caliper.

Figured out a way to get the small beehive retainer on using a shim.

Here's how the lift math ended up.
Will need to find some room or some thinner shims methinks.

A trial assembly will tell more, hopefully here soon.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[notchboy]

[Clatter]

Ya, men should be in the waiting room with cigars.
Whoever came up with this idea we wanted to see THAT!?

Best to let it be the little cupcake it always was, right?


Has to be a good Family Guy today,
But snuck out and glued the jugs into place.

Used the Greenwood Technique, where the heads are just snugged while the glue dries overnight.

Who can spot what is wrong with this pic?

Shore is purdy!

Later i started putting stuff onto the motor..

SO fun putting these fabricated, powder-coated/plated pieces into place!

OOops!
Time to be good...
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Jason37]

Why are your pistons on the wrong side?

[Busstom]

Upside down? Valves are up top, so pockets should be too, I'm thinkin.

[notchboy]

Dem arrows aint a pointin the right deerection.

_________________

[Clatter]

Welcome to China!
Have nice day.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

So,

Skipping over the inevitable angry slurs about the country these came from..


I was able to deduce that they had no idea why the arrows were supposed to be there.
That,
To the point that they didn't know the pistons were supposed to have offset pins, even.

Long ago when I bought those, I was all "WTF!?!" when mocking up.
But measuring them showed that they had the wrist pin bores centered in the piston,
And there was no offset to reduce noise/slap.

Had they actually been cast with an offset, but all the same, you could theoretically flip over rods 1 and 2 to match the offset, right?
A.k.a. put 'tangs up' and 1 and 2 (if they did indeed get the arrow/offset correct on 3 and 4).

FWIW, most aftermarket race pistons - Wiseco, J&E, KB, etc. don't come with an offset pin as they are 'race use' and not concerned about keeping them quiet (supposedly ).
Being cheaper/easier to make I'm sure has something to do with it as well..

Studying up on this, having factory offset rods in there might give them a little quieter running, maybe, and shouldn't hurt anything. Hopefully..

Still. How stupid is it that they didn't even know what those arrows are for..



Something else annoying about these is that the (hopefully middle) rings aren't marked for orientation.
And of course the kit didn't ship with any info..

Folks on the 'Performance/Engines' forum gave me reassurance that i had them in correctly.

So,
Especially today, when that far eastern country feeds us parts that are just made to be sold, and not run,
We depend upon forums like this great one here to keep things on track.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Bobnotch]

[Ian Godfrey]

Clatter, just read the whole thread, amazing journey you are on. A couple of things stand out, is that we can stuff up a part when we work on it just as easily the the supposed 'pros' do, so we're better off spending the money on some tools and learning to do it ourselves, then we take the care and do a proper job.
Example, we can't easily do chrome at home, but we can do most of it. I got my bumpers stripped, then brought them home. I fixed the mounts, beat them, welded them and filed them, then got the plater to lay on the copper. brought them home, block sanded them (went through the copper so got more copper on them, usually the chrome shops don't!) sanded more, filled the pits with solder (nobody can be bothered with this), got more copper on them, fine sanded them (120, 240, 400, 800), then got a friend I trusted to polish them, then took them to the plater and said DON"T TOUCH THEM just put on the nickel and chrome. Very slow, learnt a lot and got good bumpers.
I really felt for you over the anodising, mop shit left under clear powder coat, bad blasting etc. any way, fantastic work and keep going

[Clatter]

Thanks for the props, brother.

It's a long haul getting things right no doubt..
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[raygreenwood]

Great stuff!

A couple of things from a few posts back.

The 1.8 heads are not really second best to the 914 2.0. They are just different. The plug and intake angle has an advantage in making about 10% better hp...easier.

I run all 1.8 heads with 42mm x 36mm valves. In fact I run most 1.7's with 42 x 36 valves...but only with a cam that can work with them.

For anything other than a stock bus....running the 41 x 35 is just barely adequate...especially if you have better breathing and higher compression.

And...what was done to your valve stems ...reducing the stem cross section...is doing precisely the same thing as going up 1mm in valve size would have. The ratio of open area at half and max lift versus subtracted valve stem cross section....is what is improved upon just enough with the 42 x 36 valve set.

I'm not a big fan of reducing the valve cross section by machining right where those were done. A great many valves...one could say most...are two piece and the spin welding and or fusion welding is done right there at the machine joint you made.

Also most good valves should have hard chrome plated stems. Machining the valve stems takes away that coating.

As for inserts on the exhaust studs....ALWAYS...even on new head castings. The inserts will be far stronger and I have literally over a half million miles on inserted exhaust studs on type 4's.

The problem is that ALL type 4 exhaust studs will always eventually crack out of the original threads. This is due to a combination of heat cycling and expansion differential and the fine, narrow thread land cross section of the 8mm x 1.25 thread pitch.

Going to a solid wall insert with coarse outer thread with a wide thread land is ideal. I usually use an EZLok with 8mm id and 7/16-14 OD. Make sure the bottom inner thread is distorted so that the stud bottoms out tight and cannot push inward to jack teh insert out...ever. Then double slot the top of the insert and lock-tite it, bottom it out in the bore and peen the slots into the head. In this way....you can always remove the stud if needed without removing the insert.

I have probably done about 50 pairs of heads this way and never had a failure.
Don't worry...you can always do it later but its easier with the heads off.

Either way...its going to run great!

Oh...and the piston arrows....didn't you know that the arrows on Chinese pistons always point toward the buffet?

Ray