71' van fan belt keeps twisting off, now stranded in outback

[Goosenkombi]

Hi all,
Ran into another VW driver and said I should give this site a go.
Basically, the fan belt that I have continued to twist off of the fan and alternator. Being an earlier model ('71) this means that my van can still run, however the alternator isn't spinning so my batteries are getting flat and driving anywhere is a struggle.
I'm currently stranded at a servo in outback Western Australia charging my batteries with a 240v charger. I'm hoping this will get me to the next town which is 350+ ks away. The alternator and fan don't seem to be in line. The alternator pulley looks like it is sticking out further then the fan. I believe this is why the fan belt keeps popping off as I have been assured by many that I have the correct size fan belt. Unfortunately my van isn't all original and a bit of a miss match but I'm fairly sure it's and 1.8. Failing that 2.
I can put the belt on but once the revs start climbing the belt just flings off.
My questions are:
Are the pulley and fan meant to be flush with each other, if so, is there a way to push the alternator back in towards the body more ?

Will I be able to run my van without the alternator for 360ks to the next town or will that plan fail miserably ?

Cheers

[TomWesty]

You should never drive it without the fan belt! The fan is not turning to cool your engine when the alternator is not turning. The fan and alt are on the same shaft. You are cooking your engine. Fix the alignment issue before driving it. The generator or alternator pulley should be in alignment with your crankshaft pulley. What you are calling the fan, isn't the fan at all but the crankshaft pulley. The fan as I said, is on the other end of the generator or alternator depending on if it is a stock engine or not.
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[Fiatdude]

it's 11pm tuesday night right now here in Calif. so give it 6-8 more hours for the big boys start waking up with all the right answers.... might be a few still up but I doubt it -- A womens nylon can be run as a belt that will last a while but you diffently need to get those pulleys lined up and make sure the belt is kinda tight when on -- how far you can drive it is related to how much amps your pulling from the battery -- if you have to keep moving, get a spare battery and swap out when one goes dead or hook them in series with battey cables -- when the battery is getting weak put the belt on and fast idle the engine to charge up the battery -- -- good luck and keep lots of water with you since its so hot there -- -- you have a pancake engine there right?

[Goosenkombi]

Yeah mate, pancake.
The only batteries I have are the ones with me. They don't sell them out here.
In regards to realigning the alternator pulley to the crankshaft; is it possible to fix by yourself or do I really need to go to a mechanic.
I'll be setting up here for the night so I'll be able to wait. By the sounds of it looks like I'll have to!
Cheers for your prompt response.

[TomWesty]

If is a stock '71 it is not referred to as a pancake engine. Those came later on in '72. Does it have a motor similar to a beetle? Again I say don't run without the fan belt. Better to be stranded near civilization with an alignment issue than to be in the middle of nowhere with a cooked engine. Can you post a picture of the engine, maybe showing the pulley alignment? I've never had to make this adjustment before, so my advise is pure conjecture. Depending on how far out of alignment the pulleys are, you may be able to simply loosen the strap holding the alt to the stand and move the alt one way or the other while aligning the centers of the pulley Vs. It also could be as simple as the washers on the generator pulley are installed wrong. I no longer have that style pulley and don't have my Bentley manual handy (I don't want to wake up my wife to get it ), so I can't tell you how to install the washers properly. Do a search at the forum level on pulley alignment and you will find gobs of info.
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[Goosenkombi]

I hope these images came through (I'm new to this kind of thing)

It's a bit tricky to tell through the photos but unfortunately that's the best I can do. I'd guess the pulleys about 10mm out. Hopefully this helps a bit.

[sambabus]

It's sounds like someone put a bug generator in your 71 bus. The bus came stock with a longer, 38 amp generator and shorter backing plate. Use one or the other setups, but don't mix.
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1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

[sambabus]

That looks like a 72 motor (pancake). I don't know much about those.
_________________
1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

[airschooled]

You are safe to drive if those are pictures of your engine. Just fully charge your battery and minimize your electricity use. No radio, lights, or phone charging.

That looks like the wrong pulley and possibly wrong alternator from here. On all cars belt alignment is critical for belt life and friction reduction.

I would bet you a beverage the third digit of your vin is not a 1. The third digit tells the model year, even though title/registration years might be different. If your bus was made in July-December of 1971, then the title would say 1971 but VW would consider it a 1972 model year bus. It has the 72 or 73 engine in it, with the cool original dual carbs that are getting rarer. What's your third digit? That's the year you should be buying parts for, not '71.
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[Wildthings]

You look to have the correct alternator for a Type 4 engine, and that your problem could be a simple as the pulley being on backwards. The nut that retains the pulley is easy to remove if you have an impact wrench and the correct socket available but can be rather difficult otherwise. To remove the nut using an impact you would likely need to remove the alternator from the car to get enough room.

If you have a strap wrench which would fit over the pulley and hold it tight you could try removing the pulley using a regular wrench(spanner) to loosen the nut. You might even be able to fabricate your own strap wrench using some strong cordage or light steel cable tied off to one of the bolts on the engine and wrapped around the pulley a few times. Remember you need to get the nut nice and tight again once you flip the pulley.

[Goosenkombi]

Looks like I owe someone a beverage ! The last number is a 2. Thanks for that mate, I'll remember when I'm searching for parts.
Good to hear I can make it withough the belt a fair way. I'll see if I can spin the pulley around and see if that does the trick. Unfortunately I am fresh out of impacters. I'll give it a shot.
Cheers fellas

[williamM]

You might get that nut loose with a chisel. Lock down the pulley as instructed and cut a notch in the flat of the nut and hammer away- if it peels out- use a duller chisel.

We were stuck in Katherine for 2 weeks waiting on parts "back in the day (73)" when an other bus hit a roo and was totaled but had a brand new motor- so wierd and wonderful things happen out there.

If it's a total hack on the pulley- you might be able to hacksaw and file enough of it down to the right dimension.
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[vwwestyman]

I've driven quite a ways on a battery without an alternator in other vehicles.

As was said, minimize electrical consumption as much as possible. I even pulled one headlight fuse, etc as it was night time and I had to get home.

Push start the engine when you go to leave. All you really have to do once it is running is keep the coil alive, so starting will use a very large percentage of the battery for other things.

The one time I had to do it, I bought a marine deep cycle battery, and hooked it up to the plug for a power inverter. I basically ran battery power backwards through the cigarette lighter to keep the coil going longer, and then once I had a belt, kept it plugged in to recharge! So if you can find another battery that might be an idea.

I agree that it looks like the pulley may well be installed backwards. If you have your fan belt still, you may be able to wrap it around the fan pulley and alternator pulley and use that as your "strap wrench" too. Just squeeze the belt as hard as you can in between the two pulleys to put friction on it. That might be enough to get the nut off without removing the alternator.

Good luck!

[germansupplyscott]

the pulley looks like it's either the wrong one or it's installed inside out. your pulley lacks the rim with the 4 notches and for sure it's sitting too far out. the hub of your pulley looks different however it's a bit hard to see in the photos because yours is obscured a bit by the oil filler. your pulley sits way farther out from the alternator than this one.

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SL

[Goosenkombi]

Thanks for your help fellas! All good things to know.
I had a local diesel mechanic have a look and he put forward the idea that the engine mounts may have moved and this would cause the whole engine to move backwards leaving only the alternator forward. Is this possibly the problem?
I've had a good look at the pulley wheel and it looks like there is a decent spacer between the pulley and the rest of the alternator which seems absent on that alternator you've just shown me.
It's good to hear I can run it off the battery. Hopefully I'll make it to the next town on that, maybe then I'll have access to some decent tools to look at this pulley.

[busdaddy]

The alternator is attached to the engine (or should be), both move as a unit in the mounts, diesel mechanic fail.
Looks to me like flipping that pulley may do the trick, a large pipe wrench that fits the outer diameter of the pulley will hold it to get the nut loose, or a peice of rope or even the fan belt wrapped around it and secured to something will also do the job.
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[Conquest]

Not for nothing, but how cool is it that a guy stuck in a bus in the Australian outback can get online, ask questions of guys mostly in the US and post pictures about how to get his bus running again?
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[Goosenkombi]

Diesel mechanic fail !! Love it.
Yeah mate, this has definitely saved me a bit of trouble. A decade ago I would've had to start building a house cause I wouldn't be leaving so soon!
I'll keep trying to get the pulley of. I'll chuck a few more photos up of it once I have it off.
Cheers

[Goosenkombi]

I have gotten the but off no worries but the pulley is another story unfortunately. It's stuck on there pretty tight and I can't seem to pry it off. Any ideas ?

[Goosenkombi]

Nut***