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goffoz Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 1486
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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This is a project I'm working on this week also.
So far this little scoop,
plus adding some engine compartment tin and splash shields. and a big bash plate, has reduced my engine temps by about 10deg....don't have a IAT temp sensor yet
No pics of the tin yet, still working on it. I will seal, and duct the drivers D pillar down to the max low pressure...just forward of the tailpipe.
..opening will be a greater volume than the scoop and face rearward.should create a large low pressure
We'll see
....for lower road speeds there will be a fan on the IC |
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dkoesyncro Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006 Posts: 982
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Thats a good looking scoop. What is a good low pressure area? I thought I would use the D pillar and funnel/duct it to the I/C, where it is then doghoused to the I/C. If I understand; then it's from here the air that exits through the I/C needs to be duct to a low pressure area"?" |
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goffoz Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 1486
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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dillonkoester wrote: |
Thats a good looking scoop. |
Thankyou (elvis voice)
dillonkoester wrote: |
What is a good low pressure area? |
...just forward of the tailpipe. ..theory at this point...we'll see
when I get it ducted I'll throw my pocket anemometer in there and go for a drive |
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dkoesyncro Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006 Posts: 982
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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.just forward of the tailpipe. ..theory at this point...we'll see Very Happy
when I get it ducted I'll throw my pocket anemometer in there and go for a drive
so thats in the area where the PS pump is with a water boxer? |
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furrylittleotter Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008 Posts: 1506 Location: West Seattle
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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I have a very simple solution to increase airflow through a pillar mounted intercooler; simply mount the intercooler, seal around it, mount a tapered shroud over it and connect your fresh air intake tube to it, that will draw fresh air through the intercooler, cooling it. Simple.
Neil2 |
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goffoz Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 1486
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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dillonkoester wrote: |
so thats in the area where the PS pump is with a water boxer? |
A little lower and further back, closer to the tail pipe.
I've strapped a few ribbons back there, looks promising |
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goffoz Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 1486
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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furrylittleotter wrote: |
I have a very simple solution to increase airflow through a pillar mounted intercooler; simply mount the intercooler, seal around it, mount a tapered shroud over it and connect your fresh air intake tube to it, that will draw fresh air through the intercooler, cooling it. Simple.
Neil2 |
nice perpetual motion?
Anyhow
..Fresh air intake is in the drivers side pillar, snorkeled.
... IC is on the passenger side, scooped.
....obstruction is the fuel filler(syncro)..it'll be nice to smooth the turbulence with some ABS or Al. ducting.
We'll see |
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Waldi Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014 Posts: 1752 Location: Germany
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furrylittleotter Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008 Posts: 1506 Location: West Seattle
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:58 am Post subject: |
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goffoz wrote: |
perpetual motion?
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Not exactly, but I like where your mind's at.
Here is a flowchart/diagram:
The beauty is the higher the rpms, the more flow and the more "precharge" cooling.
Neil2 |
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OddN Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2010 Posts: 690 Location: Northern Norway
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:49 am Post subject: |
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furrylittleotter wrote: |
goffoz wrote: |
perpetual motion?
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Not exactly, but I like where your mind's at.
Here is a flowchart/diagram:
The beauty is the higher the rpms, the more flow and the more "precharge" cooling.
Neil2 |
I dont get it... You are making the intake air hotter by letting it cool the chargecooler. Wouldnt that equate to no additional cooling effect in total? _________________ 1991 VW Multivan syncro 1,9 TD |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:57 am Post subject: |
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That's a classic hot air intake system...kinda self defeating. You want to draw your intake air ahead of the IC, or from the other pillar _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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furrylittleotter Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008 Posts: 1506 Location: West Seattle
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:17 am Post subject: |
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OddN wrote: |
[
I dont get it... You are making the intake air hotter by letting it cool the chargecooler. Wouldnt that equate to no additional cooling effect in total? |
I was thinking the cool air introduced would offset the heating of the air going through the cooler. In other words, yes it would heat it, bit would also cool it, hopefully cooling more than heating it.
Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't.
Wouldn't take much to find out if someone wants to try. I don't have a turbo so I can't or I would, but all my other ideas have worked out.
Neil2 |
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costal_cat Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 137 Location: NC
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Hello all.. Just reading along and I have something a little different in my TDI set up that seems to be working well. I have my air intake on one pillar, in this case the right rear where the original intake was. Then i bring it across the back of the engine compartment to an air to air intercooler on the left rear pillar. I have an digital temp gun and I seem to be getting good temps. Air comes in hotter than it goes out the other side which is what I think I want. Now I know I cant pull that temp gun out while driving at 60mph and check but I have checked immediately after stopping and it still holds the variance. I had a variety of performance issues but it is running really solid now. I have added fuel coolers, oil and gear oil coolers in various places that have also helped. The shop just completed a new pipe from intercooler that has better bends in it but I seem to roll fine even during a summer day at 75 with the AC on. Not sure if this helps but it is my experience. If any one thinks this is flat out a bad idea and I can get better performance otherwise I would love to hear about it. I have the van off in at the shop for storage over the winter but i could have some pics sent ... _________________ 87 Syncro Westy
TDI Overland Parts engine conversion |
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Howesight Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008 Posts: 3274 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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The Mack Maxidyne diesels (1960's and 1970's) used compressed bleed air from the turbo to drive a small air-powered turbine that drove the integral fan in the intercooler air-box. Nice design in that higher boost drove the cooling fan faster and vice versa. No pesky electric fan for the Mack, nosiree . . . _________________ '86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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rmcd Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2010 Posts: 1348 Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Does anybody have pictures of the body modification s necessary to vent to the rear or underneath (is this a low pressure area)?
Would the fan sit on top of the Saab intercooler and pull air into itself and through the intercooler or would it be better to put it under the intercooler? Maybe doesn't matter? _________________ VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight= |
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Jeff's Old Volks Home Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2011 Posts: 819 Location: Chester Basin, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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furrylittleotter wrote: |
goffoz wrote: |
perpetual motion?
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Not exactly, but I like where your mind's at.
Here is a flowchart/diagram:
The beauty is the higher the rpms, the more flow and the more "precharge" cooling.
Neil2 |
To defeat the pre-heating of the intake air, you could install a water methanol injection system above the charge cooler in the pillar. It would cool the charge cooler, the intake air and keep your EGT down too. Just saying...
Jeff _________________ www.jeffsoldvolkshome.com
2004 Jetta TDi Wagon
2002 Smyth Ute TDi
1990 Vanagon weekender Syncro AAZ
1987 Syncro Doka AAZ...soon to be TDI
2014 DL650ABS Xpedition
1986 Weekender Syncro (Under construction)
1987 Westfalia (Under construction)
1987 Syncro Single cab |
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costal_cat Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 137 Location: NC
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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[/quote]
To defeat the pre-heating of the intake air, you could install a water methanol injection system above the charge cooler in the pillar. It would cool the charge cooler, the intake air and keep your EGT down too. Just saying...
Jeff[/quote]
So I was looking at this for my TDI.
http://www.snowperformance.net/mpg-max-vw-tdi.html
Is this what you are thinking? _________________ 87 Syncro Westy
TDI Overland Parts engine conversion |
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lloydy Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2010 Posts: 715 Location: cheam surrey
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Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:28 am Post subject: |
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i thought i would post up a few pics of how my intercooler is shaping up
internal division to balance cores equally
better idea here
mock up
position of fan sensor
kit form
fast fwd
used the cad cutter to make the inlet flange mount as its 10mm conical,this is important as a flat plate with a stub would render it likely to flex in and out and over time possibly cause fatigue cracking
here the fan mount is welded to the end tanks and the 90' fold is sufficient to prevent movement that could be an issue, also the fan is now securely fixed via SS rivnuts/capheads and is i think a decent way to do this.
and so we have this
so now i will place it and make a simple effective mounting for it
_________________ 16" syncro multivan pop top AHU TDI
“Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.” |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Very nice craftsmanship.
Post your results when you get a chance.
I have a WAIC unit (Frozen Boost)I am just now hooking up. My fan is about the same size as yours but it's cooling water. _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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rmcd Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2010 Posts: 1348 Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
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Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:56 am Post subject: Re: my aircooler solution |
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Thanks for the photos Waldy. Very helpful. Your implementation seems to encapsulate the best practices discussed so far.
What function does the piece of bent diamond plate provide? Does this create a low pressure area near the rear inside the fender?
Lloydy. Your craftsmanship makes me tear up. Those bent piece are beautiful. Thanks for posting. _________________ VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight= |
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