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jkaput
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Joined: February 18, 2020
Posts: 112
Location: Northampton, MA
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 Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:24 pm Post subject: Tail light mystery -- trust me, it's weird |
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Hi everyone
This past summer I decided, naively, to pull my aftermarket stereo (installed by the po) to add one of those little bass under the seat. When I did, I encountered a pile of wires that looked like spaghetti within. The wiring job was bad. After trying unsuccessfully for a couple of weeks to figure out why it wouldn't turn on, I brought it to the local radio shop.
When I got it back it came home sort of, well, quirky. Quirkier I should say. Everything worked as designed - until I turned the lights on. Then things got strange. The radio pulsed in rhythm with the left blinker. For a while I thought this was a sort of nice and weird add on - until I found out that the the rear blinker was no longer blinking. It seems to stay on, no flashing, just bright and always on.
I brought it back to the shop. They disconnected it from the ground that it seems the blinker shares. This stopped the quirky flashing stereo. it did not, however, fix the blinker. They swear these are not related, and that there are so many damn wires in there that anything could have happened. Seems totally ridiculous to me, but thats where I'm at.
Oh - I forgot to mention - when they undid the blinker issue, the interior dash lights went dark. They admit to that one.
So, my question to you - how the hell do I figure out what is going on in there? I couldn't even figure out how to get the stereo working again once I pulled it, let alone track down this issue. I can take it to a good classic vw shop, but I'm seeing major dollar signs in my future as they trouble shoot it.
So, based on this limited info, any thoughts on how to proceed?
Thanks all! |
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spitsnrovers
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Joined: December 17, 2005
Posts: 925
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: tail light mystery - trust me, its weird |
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I can only suggest getting a Bentley manual and learning to read the current track diagrams.
Check every one of those wirers one by one for base colour and tracer colours. Then compare them to the Bentley to see what they are supposed to do.
Then, perhaps you can disconnect each suspect in turn and make sure it has the desired effect - ie, colours for left blinker actually go to the left blinker, etc.
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The Carrot
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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jimf909 
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Joined: April 03, 2014
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Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: tail light mystery - trust me, its weird |
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Do you have a photo of the cluster? It's hard to know what you're working with. Is this one the only light that is malfunctioning? Running lights? Brake lights?
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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hdenter
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Joined: October 14, 2008
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Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: tail light mystery - trust me, its weird |
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All I can say is that every time I have had a problem like that, it has ended up being a bad ground wire on the star cluster. Cluster is above and behind the fuse panel. Often times, if your windshield seal is not sealed, water drips down onto the star and corrodes the wires.
Hans
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:39 am Post subject: Re: Tail light mystery -- trust me, it's weird |
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One of my policies when buying a used vehicle is to pull all the aftermarket wiring and then get all the original wiring to work again. You may have multiple iterations of stereo wiring by this point, with more than one previous owner having added to whatever was there when they bought it.
Bad grounds can cause confounding problems. |
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
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Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:41 am Post subject: Re: Tail light mystery -- trust me, it's weird |
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It’s no weirder than going to a party where everyone is speaking a language you don’t know. If you don’t learn the language , you’ll be left puzzled
Electrics are the easiest thing to troubleshoot as it follows logic to the extreme, unlike mechanical failures.
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:28 am Post subject: Re: Tail light mystery -- trust me, it's weird |
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Wires that look like spaghetti under the seat.
There are few wires under the seats, no where near enough to be a messed up and baffling as you describe.
Year of unit please plus photos of your Italian culinary delight!
Also realize that typically "professional" stereo installers don't have much training in auto electrics and are often inexperienced young folk trying to make pocket money. (I admit there are exceptions to my general statement)
I find this to be amazing with the ever growing complexities of automobile wires and the inter connect-ability of their operating systems.
I'd be almost willing to bet that the young person installing your stereo may not have ever seen a Vanagon before you wandered in.
If your wiring was by chance properly done, grounds are very likely the culprit.
Dave
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jimf909
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Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7477
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Tail light mystery -- trust me, it's weird |
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| Quote: |
| They swear these are not related, and that there are so many damn wires in there that anything could have happened. Seems totally ridiculous to me, but thats where I'm at. |
As Dave says, it's not "totally ridiculous" for a stereo shop to look at "so many damn wires" and shrug their shoulders.
A photo will help.
Returning your wiring to stock as suggested will be a gigantic step forward.
You haven't explained other abnormalities, but in addition to grounds, a shorted trailer wiring harness adapter will cause running and signal lights to do crazy things. If that's part of your wiring then delete it.
See crazyvwman's post in this thread...https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=729232&highlight=
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| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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jkaput
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2020
Posts: 112
Location: Northampton, MA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: tail light mystery - trust me, its weird |
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| hdenter wrote: |
All I can say is that every time I have had a problem like that, it has ended up being a bad ground wire on the star cluster. Cluster is above and behind the fuse panel. Often times, if your windshield seal is not sealed, water drips down onto the star and corrodes the wires.
Hans |
Great tip. I'll check that out (as soon as it warms up a bit - freaking frigid out there (15 tonight w/o windchill - yikes!)) |
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jkaput
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2020
Posts: 112
Location: Northampton, MA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: tail light mystery - trust me, its weird |
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| jimf909 wrote: |
| Do you have a photo of the cluster? It's hard to know what you're working with. Is this one the only light that is malfunctioning? Running lights? Brake lights? |
I don't have photos unfortunately. While the lights are on both front and rear left signals don't work. It appears that the left side rear stays on all the time. I can't tell with the front. |
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jkaput
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Joined: February 18, 2020
Posts: 112
Location: Northampton, MA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Tail light mystery -- trust me, it's weird |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Wires that look like spaghetti under the seat.
There are few wires under the seats, no where near enough to be a messed up and baffling as you describe.
Year of unit please plus photos of your Italian culinary delight!
Also realize that typically "professional" stereo installers don't have much training in auto electrics and are often inexperienced young folk trying to make pocket money. (I admit there are exceptions to my general statement)
I find this to be amazing with the ever growing complexities of automobile wires and the inter connect-ability of their operating systems.
I'd be almost willing to bet that the young person installing your stereo may not have ever seen a Vanagon before you wandered in.
If your wiring was by chance properly done, grounds are very likely the culprit.
Dave |
While he may have not worked on a vanagon, the owner assured me he's been working for him for 25 years and that he is 'trusted implicitly.'
Its an 85 weekender.
I did some sleuthing based on the comments and i'll hit the star cluster ground next. It just seems like a freakishly odd coincidence.
Last edited by jkaput on Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jkaput
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Joined: February 18, 2020
Posts: 112
Location: Northampton, MA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Tail light mystery -- trust me, it's weird |
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[quote="jimf909"]
| Quote: |
| They swear these are not related, and that there are so many damn wires in there that anything could have happened. Seems totally ridiculous to me, but thats where I'm at. |
As Dave says, it's not "totally ridiculous" for a stereo shop to look at "so many damn wires" and shrug their shoulders.
This may be totally true. They may have caused this issue, see a plausible way out via denial and the mess back there and say 'no way.' |
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jkaput
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Joined: February 18, 2020
Posts: 112
Location: Northampton, MA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: tail light mystery - trust me, its weird |
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I most certainly won't. I'm just trying to keep from tearing them up on Google. |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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jkaput
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2020
Posts: 112
Location: Northampton, MA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Tail light mystery -- trust me, it's weird |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Seriously, post some photos.
The eagle eyes on this forum will probably see problems straight off and offer suggestions.
Don't trivialize the importance of photos.
Do the front turn signals work?
Do the tail lights and front signal lights have the proper bulbs in them? A single filament bulb in a dual filament socket will do interesting things. (1157 / 1156 )
Dave |
I would post pics, but I would have to take it back apart first, which honestly scares me a little.
The bulbs weren't changed so that shouldn't be an issue.
Its front and back on the left.
As an side (maybe not), the bulb is out on the right tail light. Something I just noticed while looking at them again tonight. |
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djkeev
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Steve M.
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Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Tail light mystery -- trust me, it's weird |
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From personal experience learned on every vehicle I've owned that something just didn't work right electrically,
I find out what wires are in the original schematic and then figure out what the P.O. added and remove them to get it back to original so I know what is there.
Then I go about adding what I want and keep making additions to the original schematic so I know where I made connections and why.
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dabaron
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Location: Philly, mang
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Tail light mystery -- trust me, it's weird |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
One of my policies when buying a used vehicle is to pull all the aftermarket wiring and then get all the original wiring to work again. You may have multiple iterations of stereo wiring by this point, with more than one previous owner having added to whatever was there when they bought it.
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this is what you should be doing. pull the dash (it's not hard) and then start tracing wires. you might find some really terrible stuff and you'll rest easy knowing it's solid.
and while the dash is out... you can address the heater box.
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eug_camper
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Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Tail light mystery -- trust me, it's weird |
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Agree with the suggestions to do a factory reset on your electrics. Confusing as the wiring diagrams can be, they do represent a working system.
You should be able to identify original wires vs. add-ons, just don't get too eager to cut and pull.
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