1970 seasonal use maintenance issues

[J-Gaz.]

Hello all!

I have built a 1600 single port for my 1970 Beetle. I rarely drive it because my work requires me to leave the state for 6 months at a time.

My question is.

How likely is the Main seal to tear after 6 months of sitting.

Here is the Story:
Not but 3 months ago I drove my Beetle from a suburb of Seattle to Bend Oregon. I averaged 70 MPH and it drove fantastic.

However, when returning from Oregon, Just out side of Olympia my oil light came on while i was also experiencing loss of power climbing s slight incline. I immediately pulled over.

at that time i could see no issue. no oil leaks. no oil on the engine. plenty of oil on the dip stick.

Drove the car to a near by rest stop. parked for some time. looked under the engine. GIANT PUDDLE Of OIL Near where the Translate connects to the Engine.

My best guess is the Main Seal Blew.

How likely is it that my issue was caused by letting the car sit and the seal going dry causing a tear. Also, why would it wait to tear until I was on my way home, and not immediately upon start up?

thank you in advance for all your help and incite.

Justin
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1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP

[Bob Loblaw]

I can't imagine a seal tearing while just siting parked. Is it engine oil or gear oil in your puddle?
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sent from a phone using poor grammar and spelling

[Cusser]

I left an engine sitting outside for 9 years, and the oil seal has been fine for the last 5 years since I installed it in a VW.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[J-Gaz.]

[75smith]

hopefully it wasn't something bigger, loss of power tells me something might have gone bang, and it cracked the case....sorry to put that image in your head, but it's just a heads up that the rear seal may not be the culprit
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My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12

My engine build

[75smith]

Or just oil cooler, either way pressure was reduced, so there would be some engine wear involved
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My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12

My engine build

[J-Gaz.]

75Smith-

my last major issue was an ill fitting oil cooler, which was successfully repaired 2 summers ago

When it had been an issue, the oil from the cooler seals leaked from the flange toward the front pulley's and down between the barrels- all that is clean with no signs of oil leaks now.

I think what I'll have to do is Cautiously run the motor and watch for leaks and listen for other internal issues.

as for a cracked case...
I had wiped up all the residual oil and have not seen a drop since. I'll have to crawl under and take another/ closer look. but upon my initial inspection everything appeared to be in excellent shape and condition
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1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP

[Tim Donahoe]

I'd suspect the flywheel seal again. Does the leak occur in the center, where the engine and transmission meet? More noticeable after parking?

I installed one improperly, and I had to do it over again, using a flywheel-seal installer.

Make sure you just put in 2.6 quarts when filling the oil at oil-change time. Too much oil and it wants to find a way out ....

Tim

[J-Gaz.]

Tim,

Yeah-

the leak seems to be centered in the car. i was thinking bad drain plug washer...? but that seems unlikely. especially since no issue occurred for the first 500 miles (or at least that I noticed). unless it takes that kind of heat for the oil to sneak through...

i have driven the car 15 miles in my neighborhood recently to try to repeat the issue, but no such luck.

I cleaned the engine up with a rag prior to driving hoping to see the trace elements of oil beginning to spew from some seal.

spots contending for the leak include:

1. the push-rod tube closest to the driver (very little wetness from oil- cant tell where it is from suspect the seal)
2. The oil drain plug and other cap nuts (little drops of oil on all of them)
3. Case seam (there gets a little oil on the rear of the case (toward transaxel- but I think its from the oil plug blowing around... OR
4. Main Seal.

Does anyone know a solid way to "prime" the oil with the engine in the car? (with out burning up the starter).

I think I want to try to get it up to oil pressure, get the pump pumping, with the motor in the car, but not while running. that way i can watch for leaks at high RPM with the engine tin off ( most of it off).

thanks
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1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP

[J-Gaz.]

Ok,


Had to run it with the tin off to watch for leaks.

definetly from between the head and barrels was a leak, a bad valve cover/ valve cover gasket and the Main seal.

Pulled the motor out replaced valve cover and gasket, Re-torqued the heads. and replaced the main seal.

after 2 days the main seal is leaking again...

the previous seal looked perfect.

I just dont know what to do. I am beyond frustrated with it, and it is my only car...
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1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP

[mukluk]

Time to figure out why the seal keeps leaking:
- Defective or cheap quality seal
- Improper installation damaging the seal
- Burr or similar defect on the flywheel damaging the seal
- Groove worn into the flywheel providing a poor sealing surface
- Sealant between case and main seal is deficient

Make sure you're lubing the main seal lip sufficiently when installing the flywheel as well, otherwise the new seal will get damaged.
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1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga"

[72Pstroke]

Make sure your oil galley plugs aren't leaking. That could be mistaken for a rear main seal leak.
Tim

[Tim Donahoe]

Mukluk has good advice.

Get an Erling brand seal.

Get a seal installer that costs about $29.00. It has a threaded portion that you tighten where the gland nut goes. You tighten this tool until it stops--about 1/8 or so past flush. $29.00 is a bitch--but so is doing this job over and over again ....

Grease up the outer part of the Erling seal before install. White grease.

Oil the inner part of the seal where it contacts the rim of the flywheel (the snout, so to speak). Oil the back of the flywheel where it contacts the flywheel seal.

Replace the big "O" ring thats in the back and inside of the flywheel (inside the snout). You didn't mention doing this before. Oil the "O" ring well.

This should do it.

You are checking to see if you have noticeable play in the crank, before you do all this, right? And you're checking before installing the seal?

And use the lightest weight oil you can use for the ambient air temps in your area.

Good luck.

Tim

[J-Gaz.]

thanks everyone.

I will check the fly wheel for burrs.

I lubed up the ID of the seal really well with white lithium grease as to not have it tear.

In my "how to rebuild your ACVW" book, it says to use Permetex H3 sealant on the OD of the Main seal gasket, are you all finding that its not necessary? and I should use a little oil to help the seal glide into position?

I did also replace the inner O-ring on the flywheel along with the paper gasket that goes between it and the crank shaft. interestingly enough, the gasket that was between the crank and fly wheel was metal. I must have put that in thinking it was better than paper as they both had come with the gasket kit.

nonetheless. I have to drive it, but am watching the oil level intensely. So far no noticeable drop in oil level- just a pesky drip down the back of the motor... I am completely anti oil leaks! I cant stand it. I get so frustrated when everyone- mechanics included, tell me that its an old VW, that's what they do- especially because my motor in 99% brand new.

I'll tear into
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1970 Beetle | Basically Stock 1600 SP

[J-Gaz.]

[FeelthySanchez]

We're going to be laughing for another 5 yrs.
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[Tom K.]

Sorry I wasn't hanging out on the forum back in 2014, but I would have caught that had I read it. What a bummer that it sat for 5 years for such a silly reason.
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'91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight=

[J-Gaz.]

[Tom K.]

Yes. To confirm, only early 40HP engines required either the metal gasket or paper gasket. Later dual port 1600 engines (assuming that is what you have) have neither gasket and instead have the o-ring.
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'91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight=

[J-Gaz.]